Orix/Twilighte board updates

This is the right place to discuss on how to implement hardware vsync, adding a VIA or AY chipset, puting multiple roms, or how to design a new flash expansion card.
jede
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Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by jede »

Hello,

Some updates for Orix/Twilighte board (almost 1100 softwares rom/tapes in the loader):

* Starting PushingTheneveloppe, Blake's7, quitenssential, zerofx, born in 1983 etc :



* Starting .dsk jasmin/ftdos files without any jasmin controler (only .dsk ftdos format) - beta (code: Assinie)



* Enhanced ROM launcher in loader part (53 roms)



* Start Oric-1 tape only from loader :


* Start Oric-1 tape only from menu (contains only oric-1 files)


And others things, i forgot to show :) More information here : http://orix.oric.org/twilighte-board-v0-6-user-manual/
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ibisum
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by ibisum »

Looks amazing! :) What bout some 8bit Unit games too? (And what are you feelings about Twilighte/8bit Hub?)
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by Dbug »

Does Orix supports redefining the character set to use custom ones instead of the default Oric one?
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by christian »

@Dbug
Yes with the setfont command.

Usage: setfont <fontname>
<fontname>: font file name without the .chs extension

Font files are in /usr/share/fonts so you can add your own character set.
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by Dbug »

Cool, and that's remembered on startup so you can have all the boot sequence, menus, etc... use your select font?
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jbperin
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by jbperin »

jede wrote: Fri Apr 01, 2022 10:35 am Hello,

Some updates for Orix/Twilighte board (almost 1100 softwares rom/tapes in the loader):
Wow .. great work . Stunning

Is it now possible to read any DSK file from Orix?
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by christian »

@jbperin

With dsk-util (Orix utility) you can display the content of a Ftdos or Sedoric dsk file like with the !CAT or DIR statements, you can also extract all or parts of the content.

Regarding FTDOS, as shown by Jede, you can boot it with Basic 1.1 rom.
it is a rewrite of FTDOS-3.2 but without write support for the moment, !MOUNT statement changed to dynamically mount up to 4 .dsk files instead of physical floppy drives.
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by Dbug »

So you can read the DSK, but like if it was a file, I guess there's no actual FDC controller emulation which could run the actual DSK loader without having to patch it?
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by christian »

There is no FDC.
With FTDOS you can read a sector with the !RS statement.

I can emulate the FDC commands with software but you have to call them with JSR xxx instead of loading some values to an hardware interface and waiting for an IRQ.

If you want low level acces to the FDC you need some extrenal hardware: a real FDC or a FPGA emulation like with the Cumana Reborn.
The goal was not to emulate the FDC but to make FTDOS work with the Twilighte board.

It's the same approach as for the BASIC rom, I don't emulate a tape recorder but I simply modify the rom so that it uses the ch376.
So as long as you use the routines of the rom everything works correctly but if a program wants to use the VIA directly to read or write a program it will not work unless you connect a tape recorder to the Oric (and, in this case, the file will not be directly usable with Orix)

What do you mean by "actual DSK loader"?
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by Dbug »

What do you mean by "actual DSK loader"?
I had the discussion with Jérome.

I really enjoy all that has been done with Orix, but for me, the most important thing is the ability to be 100% compatible with the original *unmodified* software.

The demos I worked on, they are designed to be running on floppy, with a FDC, using their own loader that does its own thing, decompress on the fly, call some IRQ to play music, etc... there are no files on the disk, that's my stuff which I address directly by track and sector.

Yes, Jede managed to get all that working by dynamically patching the loader to emulate some read sector using custom code, but that's not actually running MY demo, it's running a patched demo.

I could write a game, with a protection, release it, and it would run perfectly fine on emulators *as is*, but to get it run on Orix you would have to modify the game (or demo), which means it would have been cracked, which technically would be illegal :)

Ultimately, my point is, if I write something using my tools, that generates a DSK, that DSK runs fine on an Atmos or Oric 1 with a Microdisk, runs fine on a Telestrat with Microdisc, but does not run out of the box on the Twilighte board without patching the file, then this device is not for me.
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by christian »

I understand but this is true for any program developed specifically for hardware.

If I write a program that uses a Jasmin drive, it will work fine on an Oric with a Jasmin, on an Atmos with a Jasmin but not on a Telestrat or an Oric/Atmos with a Microdisc without changes, then Microdsic or Twilighte are not for me.

What you call a loader is actually a device driver.

Regarding a program with protection running on an emulator or with a fake FDC, you can also consider that it is the hardware that is cracked and that your program is abused and therefore works illegally :)
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by Dbug »

Actually, Fabrice has shown with his Fantasmagoric boot sector that it was possible to write a track loader which works on both Jasmin and Microdisc using a simple offset on the I/O registers to access the FDC.

"Device driver" is very generic, I agree that the Loader is a device driver, but it does not hurt to be more specific, in this case the system provide access to the TOC, can perform decompression of data on the fly, etc... which are things that the "device" does not know anything about.

To go back to Orix/Twilighte, what I was wondering is if the board could implement something like what Cumulus did, which is basically an emulation (approximative but mostly good enough) of the Oric disk controller and FDC, which allows the handling of the page 3 registers to access the FDC as well as the overlay memory/rom/eprom switching.
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by christian »

There is currently no emulation of an FDC on the board.

Regarding the overlay memory, you can switch to one of the 64 memory banks of the card (32 x ram and 32 x rom) as easily as with a Jasmin/Microdisc/Telestrat
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by Dbug »

I guess it's not possible to use the Twilighte board and a Microdisc at the same time, for example to do real disk ripping/writing ?
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Re: Orix/Twilighte board updates

Post by jede »

Hello,

Some answers :

* I only patched loader to run the code. It means that i hooked the fdc reading calls to read object from sdcard/usb (and now i have again barbitoric loader souce code :) . The objects are the sames. About, illegal software, we don't modify .tap to run it on the board for example. But, tapes file must be modified some times for Erebus. I don't think that some body says 'it's illegal'. Impossible mission(from twilighte) had been cracked in order to have it working on microdisc.

* About demo, as i participate on somes demoes, i really don't care if it's modified or not (In somes cases -asm2K2 & barbitoric-, i cracked my own loader written 20 years ago :).
I enjoy to see it again on real hardware and it offers twilighte board owners (and me) to see theses softwares without having all the devices connected (and paid) (tape, jasmin, joysticks and modifyed Oric to see all released ROMs). Also, "junk" on the table is not for me (joysticks interface, cumulus, jasmin, tape recorder) :)

* I think we could plug microdisc on it, i did not test it but cumulus works, because i started demos from cumulus with the board connected

* about device point of view, except starting software with real hardware (microdisc, jasmin), every others hardwares uses powerful micro controler or powerful fpga. I think that Erebus has the less "chip powerful", after it's twilighte board (it uses an USB controler, - and not a microcontroler- and an old 5V CPLD), cumulus uses a lot bigger modern fpga and a real 'powerful' controler. I mean, every body has its own "device perception", and it's difficult to share the same point of view. Because everything can be considered cheated.

* about fdc emulation, i could do, but if i explain that to a CPC friend, he says, it's cheated and the software does not run as it should, because timing are not the same than real floppy disc (it's the same for cumulus too, which does not emulate real floppy disc behavior). But i could.

About "device perception", i always take this example : Twilighte, three months before he died, says me that he will only do softwares on tape format, now, because the oric was released with tape recorder and not microdisc. Then, microdisc/cumulus was not for him in year 2013 and disk controler did not exist for him :)
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