Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

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Adam
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Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Adam »

I want to complete a very hard game, which I could never complete in my childhood.

Such things are more doable these days, thanks to emulators and saving states.

So first I'll be running the game on an emulator, saving states to allow me to practice.

Then I'll be playing the game on real hardware, and try to get to the end in one run. If I can get to the end, I'll be putting a video on YouTube.

What do people feel are suitable games? How far did you get? Etc.

So far, I'm drawn to Damsel in Distress. I never got past the first level if I remember correctly. I can't see anyone getting past the first level on YouTube either. If level 1 is anything to go by, it's an absurdly hard game.

Thanks :)
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Dbug »

Adam wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 6:55 am So far, I'm drawn to Damsel in Distress. I never got past the first level if I remember correctly. I can't see anyone getting past the first level on YouTube either. If level 1 is anything to go by, it's an absurdly hard game.
I think you picked up the proper one.
And yes, absurdly difficult it is, but I was told that it was possible to pass the levels, I seem to remember hat Symoon did something similar to what you did with save states some time ago.

There are plenty other difficult games, but it's because they are either super slow, buggy, etc... at least Damsel is a proper challenge, it's a technically very well done game, it looks good and sounds good.

I'm sure an AI would play it without any problem because it's mostly a case of pixel perfect jumps, if you can do that accurately all the time you're golden :D
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Symoon »

I finished Damsel In Distress long ago to make screen grabs for Oric.org 8) ... But cheating a LOT with Euphoric ;)
And I was quite disappointed to see there was no ending sequence, nothing, it just looped to level 1.

Another hard game is The Hellion (which I find quite funny too), despite having a sort of "continue" option that allows the player to start a new game two levels before the one he failed. Up to, IIRC, level 74. From there you have to finish, up to the 101th level - good luck ;)
In the same spirit, The Ultra was rather hard too.
And, well, Manic Miner again ? ;)
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Adam »

Dbug wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:15 am There are plenty other difficult games, but it's because they are either super slow, buggy, etc... at least Damsel is a proper challenge, it's a technically very well done game, it looks good and sounds good.
Good point, I can think of very hard games which are only hard because the gameplay is poor! I want one that feels worthwhile.
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Adam »

Symoon wrote: Thu Feb 03, 2022 10:19 am I finished Damsel In Distress long ago to make screen grabs for Oric.org 8) ... But cheating a LOT with Euphoric ;)
And I was quite disappointed to see there was no ending sequence, nothing, it just looped to level 1.

Another hard game is The Hellion (which I find quite funny too), despite having a sort of "continue" option that allows the player to start a new game two levels before the one he failed. Up to, IIRC, level 74. From there you have to finish, up to the 101th level - good luck ;)
In the same spirit, The Ultra was rather hard too.
And, well, Manic Miner again ? ;)
Congratulations on completing Damsel in Distress, even with cheating! Do you think it is reasonable that, after practicing the screens, it could be done in a single playthrough without cheating? I can be quite determined, I've completed 2 games without cheating so far and put them on YouTube, e.g. Manic Miner for the BBC here

Oric Manic Miner is definitely on my to-do list. The only reason I'm not planning on it being my next game, is that I completed it for the BBC. So I want something a bit different next.

Thanks for the other suggestions, I'll check them out, especially if Damsel in Distress gets too frustrating!
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Symoon »

Adam wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:37 am Congratulations on completing Damsel in Distress, even with cheating! Do you think it is reasonable that, after practicing the screens, it could be done in a single playthrough without cheating? I can be quite determined, I've completed 2 games without cheating so far and put them on YouTube, e.g. Manic Miner for the BBC
Impressive!
To be honest it was many years ago and I don't remember enough to tell you if it could be possible. I just recall the pixel-perfect jumps that were required, but I can't remember if there were some additional tricky timing traps or random things.
Adam wrote: Oric Manic Miner is definitely on my to-do list. The only reason I'm not planning on it being my next game, is that I completed it for the BBC. So I want something a bit different next.
Sure, but the Oric version has something like 8 additional levels ;)
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Adam »

Symoon wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 8:01 pm
Adam wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 10:37 am Congratulations on completing Damsel in Distress, even with cheating! Do you think it is reasonable that, after practicing the screens, it could be done in a single playthrough without cheating? I can be quite determined, I've completed 2 games without cheating so far and put them on YouTube, e.g. Manic Miner for the BBC
Impressive!
To be honest it was many years ago and I don't remember enough to tell you if it could be possible. I just recall the pixel-perfect jumps that were required, but I can't remember if there were some additional tricky timing traps or random things.
Adam wrote: Oric Manic Miner is definitely on my to-do list. The only reason I'm not planning on it being my next game, is that I completed it for the BBC. So I want something a bit different next.
Sure, but the Oric version has something like 8 additional levels ;)
I took my first tentative steps with Damsel in Distress. On the real Oric. Half an hour later, still not past Level 1! I'm going to regret this :) The thing is though, I'm definitely learning and getting a bit further, or getting the same distance more reliably, every time I tried. Definitely going to stick at it.

Re Manic Miner, yep, it's the fact that there are more levels which is going to make me try it. If it was the same as the BBC version I wouldn't bother playing it all over again on the Oric. I'm hoping there's 32 levels in all, because that's what I kept bragging to my friends about in school back in the day!
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Dbug »

What type of screen are you using on your real Oric, a CRT or a LCD?
Some LCD have a bit of latency which can be very detrimental when doing things that are basically "frame perfect"!
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Adam »

Dbug wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 7:13 pm What type of screen are you using on your real Oric, a CRT or a LCD?
Some LCD have a bit of latency which can be very detrimental when doing things that are basically "frame perfect"!
LCD. I don't know what the latency is, but it's the same screen I used to complete two pretty tough BBC games - Manic Miner and Vindaloo. So I'd guess it's not bad for gaming.

Though funnily enough, I've just dug out an old Cub 1431 monitor, initially bought for the BBC, which I seem to remember works with the Atmos (I think it's actually the same pin-out as the BBC if I remember correctly, but I haven't checked). Maybe I'll switch to that.

Anyway, I just tried it on the real Atmos for fun - when trying to "learn" it in earnest, I'll be doing it on an emulator. Then back to the real hardware when I think I stand a chance! I might need to get fussy about screens then :)
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Dbug »

When I was trying to get a high score on Defence Force, I was really having trouble on the emulator, but on the real Atmos with the proper keyboard, I made a much higher score!
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Adam »

Dbug wrote: Mon Feb 14, 2022 9:30 pm When I was trying to get a high score on Defence Force, I was really having trouble on the emulator, but on the real Atmos with the proper keyboard, I made a much higher score!
You've made me wonder about the best system to practice it on :)

It can't be the real Oric, because there's no way for me to save states.

I *was* going to emulate it on an ancient Thinkpad, because of the nice keyboard and the 4:3 screen. I can't find info on the latency for it. Apparently not all screens for that model were the same - different manufacturers. One forum post suggests it could be as high as 25ms for some screens.

I've just checked the monitor I use for my main PC, and it claims to have an average latency of 8ms. So I'll probably use that.

Thanks for making me think of this issue :)
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Adam »

Although, interesting note so far on Damsel in Distress:

Even the very first obstacle can seem like you need pixel-perfect / frame-perfect timing, but I'm pretty sure you get two whole (!) frames of leeway to get past it.

More important seems to be "learning" the dodgy collision detection, and just how close/overlapping to certain "monster limbs" you can get without dying.
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Dbug »

One thing you could do, is to press F10 in Oricutron, this will save a lossless video file in AVI format.
You can easily use that to do a frame by frame analysis of whatever happened.
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by ibisum »

Adam wrote:More important seems to be "learning" the dodgy collision detection, and just how close/overlapping to certain "monster limbs" you can get without dying.
Isn't it like, the bros didn't realise the top 2-bits of each byte needed to be ignored in the hit-detecting AND operation? So, if the attribute bits are ignored, there's more 'leeway' for hit detection ..
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Re: Hard action games on Oric which have an ending?

Post by Adam »

ibisum wrote: Tue Feb 15, 2022 6:46 pm Isn't it like, the bros didn't realise the top 2-bits of each byte needed to be ignored in the hit-detecting AND operation? So, if the attribute bits are ignored, there's more 'leeway' for hit detection ..
I don't know about the technicalities. One thing the programmer certainly succeeded in ignoring was the blood pressure and mental well-being of the poor player :)
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