CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

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coco.oric
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CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by coco.oric »

Dear all,

I've started a new mag, a ceo-mag special edition, with a free distribution (no need to be a ceo member as usual)
Target date is 27/1/2023.

You'll find some informations on FB : https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100087144893443, linked to a group "redaction committee"
and on the participative github area : https://github.com/club-europe-oric/ceo ... nniversary as i wish that a lot of people will contribute to this special issue. I intend to be able to publish a french and an english version (if possible, with some contributions).

On oric.org, i'll push a specific website : oric40ans.oric.org (but not started yet)

So if you're motivated, don't hesitate to send some informations, pics or game tests for this mag.
I intend to detail on :
- the 40 best of games (1 per year from 1983 to 2022)
- hall of fame : the 10 best games
- hall of fame : the 10 best software (excluding games)

Rankings will be defined with notations given on oric.org.
So if you don't have time to give us some material, push your notes and comments on the games you like

Every 2 weeks, i'll update the rankings. End of rank phase ; 15/12
Before filling the mag...
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by Symoon »

No promises as usual, but I can try to sum up our recent exchanges with Dbug regarding how to convert unsued HIRES screen areas into usable memory (displaying nothing). If that suits you.
When would be the deadline to submit articles, so that you can make the final PDF in time?
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by Symoon »

Regarding best games and all: beware on Oric.org, I noticed long ago some people used to set an excessively bad note (zero) in all categories to games they didn't like and that were ranked in the top ten, just to have them out of the top 10. Also, some programs may have only 1 or 2 notes, thus ranking them high for instance, but is that relevant?

Not an easy task in my opinion.
Maybe the amount of voters should be taken into account (that's also a popularity indicator), and best/worst notes taken out. Something like that.

EDIT: there were also some obvious mistakes. See "Alric" saying he's in love with 3D Fongus in the comments, and giving it a full zero notes:
https://www.oric.org/software/3d_fongus-110.html
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by Dbug »

I agree with Symoon, oric.org is a terrible source for grading games, like typically something that has no sound or graphics will have a terrible global note because of the average, even if it's an incredible text adventure.

Also there's the problem of the bias caused by games being classics that everybody voted for, versus hidden gems, and also new games perception depends entirely on how good people were at advertising them.

I think having some kind of poll where people can vote for games, with the possibility for people to add games they like, would be nice.
Something a bit like the Facebook polls really.

Regarding the hall of fame, maybe it would make sense to have a category for tape software, and one for disk software, because the possibilities are vastly different, and that's really like comparing two different types of technology :)
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by Symoon »

Dbug wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 11:08 am typically something that has no sound or graphics will have a terrible global note because of the average, even if it's an incredible text adventure.
This was supposed to be adressed with the "overall" or "interest" note, which could be high for a great game with low technical notes for instance.
If I remember correctly (but that's very old, close to 20 years ago), at first the average was made with technical notes + interest. Then we saw the flaw and added "overall" as a 2nd ranking, so that good but technically weak games could have a proper ranking.
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by coco.oric »

Regarding best games and all: beware on Oric.org, I noticed long ago some people used to set an excessively bad note (zero) in all categories to games they didn't like and that were ranked in the top ten, just to have them out of the top 10
I'll ask jede if it's possible to remove 000 votes, and don't allow these scores.
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by coco.oric »

Regarding the hall of fame, maybe it would make sense to have a category for tape software, and one for disk software, because the possibilities are vastly different, and that's really like comparing two different types of technology
Good idea dbug. Noted

So we should have :
- 1 best / year = 40 games
- top 10 tap & top 10 edisk on games
- top 10 utils
..
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by coco.oric »

Symoon wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 9:20 am No promises as usual, but I can try to sum up our recent exchanges with Dbug regarding how to convert unsued HIRES screen areas into usable memory (displaying nothing). If that suits you.


Yes of course, i was a good follower on this topic. But i prefer it on a ceo-mag classic, to keep the storyline on the best software, and eventually on interviews or other infos for the special edition (if there're some contributors and the time to finish the issue)
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by Chema »

I'm afraid you won't ever have a good indicator simply because there are not enough votes. This kind of system works when you have big numbers so outliers can be filtered out or simply do not affect that much. But some games have 4-5 (even 1!) votes and those with more votes have, what, 20 votes? If someone simply does not fill the Overall box, the impact of that zero is huge.

A poll at a given moment in time could give a better idea. Even, as old mags did, picking up a group of reviewers and asking them to rate their top 10 games, maybe in different areas, such as technical achievement, design, playability, graphics, sound, whatever ... One may not agree, but the reading would be nice :)

And I agree with Dbug... disk-based games play on another totally different league.
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by Dbug »

Another issue I see, is how to get people to vote for 40 games, one per year.
That's many games, and most people will have no idea of which game was released in 1983 or 1984 or 1985, etc...

Would it not be easier to just vote for games per decade?

Best software released in 1983-1992 / 1993-2002 / 2003-2012 / 2013-2022 ?

I'm sure there are some experts would would be happy to get a proper list of 40 programs, but most people would struggle - me included -
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by Chema »

Dbug wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 8:05 pm I'm sure there are some experts would would be happy to get a proper list of 40 programs, but most people would struggle - me included -
me too :)
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by coco.oric »

Yearly list updated
No games in 1999, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2011, 2015
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Re: CEO-MAG 40th Anniversary

Post by coco.oric »

Best software released in 1983-1992 / 1993-2002 / 2003-2012 / 2013-2022 ?
We should have these in the top10
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