Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

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Dbug
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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by Dbug »

The TI99 also renders on only one third of the screen vertically, that helps.

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by xahmol »

jbperin wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 12:40 pm
But I supect the guy from the TI-99 demo to use a GPU F18A for the rendering to be so fast.
Well, that is even in the title of the video that he is using that.....
Then again, this demo on the TI-99/4a works on my stock TI-99/4a with only a 32k expansion, no GPU:

But of course the TI-99/4a has a 16 bit CPU altough memory bus and videochip all are 8 bit.... so maybe that helps on pure calculation side.

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by jbperin »

xahmol wrote:
Tue Feb 23, 2021 1:03 pm
Then again, this demo on the TI-99/4a works on my stock TI-99/4a with only a 32k expansion, no GPU:
This demo is very nice .

But, to some extent, from the 3d point of view, I find Oric does a better job with castoric.
Despite Oric has a 1Mhz 8bits processor it manages to do textured raycasting where the TI, with its 3Mhz half 16 bits processor only do color raycasting.

Image

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by jbperin »

NekoNoNiaow wrote:
Wed Mar 28, 2018 3:43 am
I did a cursory search for "wolfenstein oric" and "doom oric" on Duck Duck Go and https://pout.net but I did not find any indication that anyone attempted to at least make a technical demonstration of these games on the Oric.

There have been some attempts on the C64, VIC 20, Spectrum and others, so I thought that the Oric might also have one but it looks like this is not the case. Can anyone confirm?
Unfortunately, the CPU power and graphic capabilities of Oric do not allow to create a Wolfenstein that would be playable.
A technical demonstration was actually started .. but .. I let you guess why it was never completed and then why you didn't find it on Duck Duck Go
wolf.gif
wolf.gif (193.8 KiB) Viewed 565 times
On Oric, we do not have Super CPU like they have on C64 or GPU F18A like they have on TI99.
So we can only rely on factory hardware

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by Symoon »

Hey, nice anyway!
Having tried is already an achievement.

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by Dbug »

I've to point out that on most platforms, including PC, the screen could be resized to have less to redraw, yours is full screen, and it does not have to be :)

If you can get this prototype (let say with two boxes of ammo, one health pack, and one moving soldier) on your github, we can look at it and see if that can be optimized.

Ideally, showing frame time information could be helpful :)

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by iss »

Dbug wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:10 pm
... yours is full screen, and it does not have to be :)
100% agree with @Dbug on everything he said!

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by jbperin »

Symoon wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 2:44 pm
Hey, nice anyway!
Having tried is already an achievement.
Thank you :-)
Yes, it was very challenging to explore this kind of development on Oric.
Dbug wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:10 pm
If you can get this prototype (let say with two boxes of ammo, one health pack, and one moving soldier) on your github, we can look at it and see if that can be optimized.
I've got one loaded gun (with 12 ammo in it), one health pack (50% health bonus) and one moving soldier.
GunHealthSoldier.gif
GunHealthSoldier.gif (292.98 KiB) Viewed 510 times
Would that do ?

In any case, there's still a bug to fix before i can show the code.
(when you first pick the health pack and then target the gun, it is not displayed if the camera rotation is exactly aligned with the wall .. so weird)
proto.tap
(36.15 KiB) Downloaded 14 times
When you pick the gun you have 12 more ammo and the health pack gives you 50% more health .. so .. it worth taking them.

The routine that draws the sprite is fully written in C .. so it should be optimisable.
iss wrote:
Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:29 pm
100% agree with @Dbug on everything he said!
The maximum screen resolution is 78*64 texels (which are 3*3 pixels).
I fear that reducing the screen size would make it somewhat difficult to draw recognizable things.
I must confess that for now I have only worked on wall textures (to make them suit the current resolution).
Similar work have to be done on item'sprites to make them more recognizable. So far they are just converted from originals but not reworked.

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by Dbug »

For the motivation (work in progress)
image_2021-10-27_204034.png
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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by jbperin »

Waou 😲 thanks you so much Dbug.

What a beautiful image !!

Wonderful .. it's a wip that looks thousand time better than what I could achieve after hours of work.

That's very cool.

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by iss »

Dbug wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 7:40 pm
For the motivation (work in progress)
... and more motivation in attached file :)

Perfect title screen and main music theme ... IMHO the game is 99% ready for release! :lol:
Attachments
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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by jbperin »

iss wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:00 pm
Perfect title screen and main music theme
Waou .. :shock: that would be for sure an incredible intro screen.
Sound is very good for sampled sound.
Is that your Sound Engine - 30% - for WAV-like and speech playback ?
iss wrote:
Wed Oct 27, 2021 11:00 pm
IMHO the game is 99% ready for release! :lol:
You guys are bringing some incredible material.
I don't know yet how it is possible to use these contributions.
But it undoubtedly gives motivation to push further the effort.

Thank you very much
You guys are magicians !!

I propose to set up a shared repository once I will have cleaned the code.
So that we can aggregate all contributions and see what it gives.

I don't know why but I feel there's a way a make something noticeable here. :D

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by Chema »

I must say all this is impressive indeed!

Is your frame time dominated by drawing? It seems so. Maybe you could make a test and see the max framerate you could achieve without drawing anything (I mean the walls, sprites clearly need optimizing).

If you want to get something near 10 fps to make it playable, it means you need a good optimization here. Don't know, maybe drawing half of the screen (in height) and mirroring, maybe even consider going into text mode and make the needed texels using 6x8 blocks. It would look worse, but would be faster.

Or maybe Dbug (who is a master in this area) can come up with a totally different approach... sometimes it is necessary to make things in a totally different way to make them fast.

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by jbperin »

Yes the drawing is what takes most time.

I don't think it is possible to reach 10 fps.

The color rendering uses the same principle as in Dbug's rotozoom but the main problem is that I uses 3*3 wide texel I need two writings and a OR to write one byte in the graphic memory.

The sprites thing is super mega slow because it is fully written in C and moreover there are some calculation that are made twice. So there are rooms for enhancement.

Dbug has already given me many advices on how to implement my ideas .. he still has some nice ideas .. but I don't have courage to explore all possibilities.

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Re: Wolfenstein / DOOM for Oric : has this been done?

Post by Dbug »

There are plenty of ways to speed up things, including only redrawing half of the screen each frame, like maybe alternated between odd and even columns.

Anyway, as usual:
- Complete source code should be out, and possible to compile out of the box without any special setup
- Need some instrumentation code (at the very least min/max/average frame time)

With that people can get the project, try it and play with possible optimizations and see how the speed changes.

Nobody, ever, get a game (or engine) right the first time. And if they do, it's because it was not even worth doing it in first place.

My question is: Why is your repository private?
I can understand if you want to only give write access to some people, but there's no reason not to have everybody look at the code: More eyes, more chances people have ideas.

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