Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

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This includes generic Oric talkings and things that are totaly unrelated but want to share with people here :)
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Dbug
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Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by Dbug »

Chema wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 9:58 pm
Dbug wrote:
Sat Mar 20, 2021 2:20 pm
I'm not sure who owns https://github.com/oric-software but it makes me sad to see all these projects cloned without any attribution: Oricium, Player Mym, Nyan Cat, etc...
I think Jede owns this one... maybe to patch things so they load with orix or something like that
Sure, but my problem is that it's a public repository. If it was private, I'll be fine.
If things are publicly accessible and appear in search results, there should be at least one line that says what it is, where it came from, and who did it.

As far as I'm concerned, that's the source code equivalent of releasing Space 1999 as a DSK without any of the files (map, documentation, etc...).

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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by coco.oric »

I'm not sure who owns https://github.com/oric-software but it makes me sad to see all these projects cloned without any attribution: Oricium, Player Mym, Nyan Cat, etc...
Repo is an collective one. There're several people - not linked to CEO for some, title of the repository isn't fully compliant - with full access to the repositery, including myself (my first project with CC65 is ongoing) and Jibe for example.
Main contributor is Jede and i think - like Chema - that a lot of the sourcecode mentioned have been modified by Jede, working on its Orix project or converted these to use them with CC65.

I've opened the repositery without signin and each repo is attributed to its creator. It's working like your Oric SDK repository where each member can archive its code in its sub-directory. Main difference is that in Oric SDK repo, each branch is clearly dedicated to one people, and on Github, you've to open each one to see who has published the repo.

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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by Dbug »

coco.oric wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 7:42 am
I'm not sure who owns https://github.com/oric-software but it makes me sad to see all these projects cloned without any attribution: Oricium, Player Mym, Nyan Cat, etc...
I've opened the repositery without signin and each repo is attributed to its creator. It's working like your Oric SDK repository where each member can archive its code in its sub-directory. Main difference is that in Oric SDK repo, each branch is clearly dedicated to one people, and on Github, you've to open each one to see who has published the repo.
The problem is not who CREATED the repo, the problem is not mentioning who created the ORIGINAL product.
I'm fine with the content of any project to be cloned to be modified for specific purpose, but it should be obvious on the page of each project that this is a cloned repository from (original repository) with links to the eventual original page, and who made the program.

Just to take one example, there's a clone of Stormlord:
image_2021-03-26_075827.png
And this page does not say it was a game by Jonathan Bristow (Twilighte), there's no link to the original defence force page (https://www.defence-force.org/index.php ... =stormlord) and there's no link to the original source repository (https://osdn.net/projects/oricsdk/scm/s ... Stormlord/) and that's the same thing for pretty much most of what is in this repository.

All these games, demos, etc... are the result of a huge amount of work by their creators, and was given for free to the community, the least we can do as people is to not forget that and give proper attribution at ALL time, not put our own copyright notices on other's people work just because they did some changes to adapt from a compile to another or added a patch to support joystick or whatever.

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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by coco.oric »

I'm fine with the content of any project to be cloned to be modified for specific purpose, but it should be obvious on the page of each project that this is a cloned repository from (original repository) with links to the eventual original page, and who made the program.
I'm aligned, but i'm not the owner and in my project, all software used is well attributed.
Anyway, this has to be handled by who -as the repositery is a collective one - , in your opinion ?
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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by Dbug »

coco.oric wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 8:39 am
I'm fine with the content of any project to be cloned to be modified for specific purpose, but it should be obvious on the page of each project that this is a cloned repository from (original repository) with links to the eventual original page, and who made the program.
I'm aligned, but i'm not the owner and in my project, all software used is well attributed.
Anyway, this has to be handled by who -as the repositery is a collective one - , in your opinion ?
The lame answer would be "The CEO" because after all it's branded like that on the top of the repository:
image_2021-03-26_085950.png
More realistically, there are 50 repositories in it, so a minimum of organization would help. It's not just attribution, it's just that it's mess of projects, many having zero description of what they are.

At a minimum what I'd like is to have each of these 50 project at least have a one liner on the front page saying what it is (simply because that makes it easier for everybody), some are already doing it.

Good:
- Castoric -> "Ray Casting System for Oric Computers"
- BattleZone4Oric -> "BattleZone Clone For Oric"
- OricExplorer -> "Oric Explorer is a .Net GUI application running on Windows, macOS and Linux for exploring ..."

Bad ones without any description:
- glOric, file, gateway-ip, drwho, mym, ...

Empty repositories without anything in them:
- deltapack, hrs2txt, badapple, spo256, bubble, vidplay, sdl, ulapaint, xpaint, destrike, sedsd, ripped, dizzy, soft, unpack



Regarding attribution, it seems to me that "jede" is the number one culprit, mostly because he imported a massive number of projects for Orix, and none of the ones I looked at has any attribution or explanation of where it comes from (some are probably even his own projects, but we don't know):
- https://github.com/oric-software/file
- https://github.com/oric-software/mym <- Me
- https://github.com/oric-software/drwho
- https://github.com/oric-software/lcc816
- https://github.com/oric-software/orixdbg
- https://github.com/oric-software/digiblast
- https://github.com/oric-software/oricium <- Chema
- https://github.com/oric-software/nyatmos <- Me
- https://github.com/oric-software/4kkong <- Me
- https://github.com/oric-software/ipkg
- https://github.com/oric-software/vi
- https://github.com/oric-software/stormld <- Twilighte
- https://github.com/oric-software/skooldaze <- Chema
- https://github.com/oric-software/wurlde <- Twilighte
- https://github.com/oric-software/Xorix
- https://github.com/oric-software/sedoric
- https://github.com/oric-software/OricGigaDemo <- Collective work
- https://github.com/oric-software/PushingTheEnvelope <- Me + all the 35 other people credited on the original page

I'm going to fork this post so we stop polluting Jibé's raycasting post

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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by Dbug »

This discussion is forked from JiBé's original discussion about his raycasting engine on the ceo github, where a lot of software is not properly credited, which also made me react like that on Twitter:



I expended the topic for things like "Oric Game Base" and similar projects, personal tape archives, etc...

If the plan is to do things for yourself, and you don't plan to credit people or just don't care about all these ".nfo" or "read me" files that came with the project, fair enough, but then keep it private, and don't ever distribute that to other people: Each time I see somebody who claims that Space: 1999 is impossible to play because the get lost, it means they got a version where the people had removed the maps of Moon Base Alpha, and that's just not cool, it's a huge disrespect to the people who spent the time making the game.

Same thing with public repositories that don't link to the original place.

So people, remember: Forking and copying is fine, just give credit to who made things originally.

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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by coco.oric »

The CEO" because after all it's branded
Brand removed to avoid confusion
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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by Chema »

I agree with Dbug. I even put in my readme files that the game should not be distributed without the instructions and manuals, for that reason. Jede is in this forum, so it is simply a matter of asking him if he could just put the credits and a link to the game site on the readme file of each repository.

Another thing is that I am not sure if the patched binaries are also in the repo, but in that case it is even worse, because all those images end up in collections (like TOSEC) with no documentation at all, and simply do not work on off-the-shelf Orics, confusing people. If the binaries are not there, there is still the possibility that somebody clones the repo to build the program from the sources. All this duplication creates a lot of confusion if not handled properly.

I share my games with sources for the community, and I am fine with whatever use they make of them as long as they: keep the docs with the binaries, credit the author, and do not make money from them (whether selling a collection or an emulation system or hardware which includes them, or making derivative works from my sources or engines to create games that are to be sold without permission). I am otherwise really thankful for all the patching (for joystick usage, orix compatibility, etc.), translation, bug correction, etc. that people make!

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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by Dbug »

coco.oric wrote:
Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:05 am
The CEO" because after all it's branded
Brand removed to avoid confusion
Thanks :)

I see that now there are only 25 projects remaining (I guess they were deleted or marked private), which I guess is also a solution to the issue :)

Thanks (whoever did that)

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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by ibisum »

I see that now there are only 25 projects remaining (I guess they were deleted or marked private), which I guess is also a solution to the issue
Did we lose something as a community, here? Are those projects devnull'ed? Or, is it a case that things are getting cleaned up and organised somehow? I'm a bit confused now to be honest.

(100% Agree on all attribution, just wondering about the rejiggering of the Oric cornucopia..)

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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by Dbug »

ibisum wrote:
Sat Mar 27, 2021 10:31 am
I see that now there are only 25 projects remaining (I guess they were deleted or marked private), which I guess is also a solution to the issue
Did we lose something as a community, here? Are those projects devnull'ed? Or, is it a case that things are getting cleaned up and organised somehow? I'm a bit confused now to be honest.

(100% Agree on all attribution, just wondering about the rejiggering of the Oric cornucopia..)
Since I'm not on the project I can't say, I only noticed that this morning.

I assume they were just put as Private so they don't appear on search result: Nothing is lost, it was mostly Orixx adaptation of existing software from when Orixx could not directly boot Sedoric disks, so I don't think anything is lost.

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Re: Crediting people (source code fork, software archives, ...)

Post by ibisum »

Ah, okay .. Orixx is a moving target, after all.

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