Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

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8bit-Dude
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Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by 8bit-Dude »

Hi Guyz!

I am finalizing release 0.4 of 8bit-Unity, which supports scrolling charmap (running pretty fast now on Oric).
Charmap support is featured in a Tech-Demo called "8bit-Dungeon".

The charmap was designed with CharPad (C64 tool), from which the charset is exported as PNG.
I then use PictOric to convert the charset to AIC format (see: https://osdk.org/index.php?page=article ... T9#title17)

The results are "OK", but I don't think it does the Oric justice... I am posting here the current demo disc (keys are WASD+CTRL), and charset before/after conversion. It would be "VERY NICE" if someone could kindly try to manually retouch the AIC charset, to improve visuals. I would like the ORIC to show its true colors with this Tech Demo.

Thanks in advance!
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Dbug
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by Dbug »

For this type of thing, it's very hard to do without a tool that allows you to see all the pixels change on the map at the same time, in the actual context of how they are used.

Side note: On the Oric there's only one control key, on the left side, so it's not ideal with WASD for movement :)
Maybe you could accept any of the CTRL/SHIFT/FUNCT key presses as action key, so you can move with the left hand and action with the right hand?
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jbperin
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by jbperin »

I don't know if it can help but there's a tool (named Orichir) made by goyo which allows to do pixel level manipulating.

https://ceo.oric.org/orichir/
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by Dbug »

jbperin wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 8:33 am I don't know if it can help but there's a tool (named Orichir) made by goyo which allows to do pixel level manipulating.

https://ceo.oric.org/orichir/
That could help if it had a tile editing mode: Basically what is needed is the tile equivalent of a character set editor, where you can write some text (in this case, paint tiles on a map) and then when you change pixels in the actual tiles, see immediately what happens on the map, it's super important because that allows you to see the junctions between the various tiles, how they look like when they are repeated, etc...
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xahmol
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by xahmol »

Is not one of the Twilighte tools up to that task?
http://twilighte.oric.org/twinew/start.htm

and maybe especially this one:
https://forum.defence-force.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=900

Not sure as I never dared to touch pixel precise graphics myself, especially not AIC. Graphic design is not my forte. Looked at the tools, managed to download and run them, but had no inspiration to really try them.
(Apart from the CD2 tool, that I used to create screens for my game, but that is not really a tile editor and also not for AIC. It is meant for pure text mode)
And of course the Twilighte tools are all native Oric, which is nicely retro, but not as convenient as a tool like Charpad.
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Dbug
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by Dbug »

Since that's for the 8bit unity, technically it's now possible to use a mouse (through the 8bit hub), and even download/upload files, so maybe a proper image editor is doable on the Oric :)
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by xahmol »

Dbug wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 12:56 pm so maybe a proper image editor is doable on the Oric :)
Not doable by me ;-)
And would myself by far prefer an Oric version of CharPad for Windows 10, or, even better, CharPad to not only support Commodore targets, but also Oric (and TI, Spectrum, etc). But I guess both are rather wishful thinking as I certainly can not do so myself.
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8bit-Dude
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by 8bit-Dude »

Long term, I plan to create a fully integrated IDE for 8bit-Unity, that let's people edit bitmaps/charmaps/sprites for each platform and see the results directly in the IDE. But we are talking years rather than months...
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by ibisum »

Hey Chema - Is this not a job for the charmap/image editor that you wrote for Blakes 7? Not that its for me to say, but it sure seems like that would be highly useful in the context of 8-bit Unity ..
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by Chema »

Could be. It was a bit specific for my needs, but I shared the sources (the link is somewhere in this forum), so it could help.

I think a PC based editor with some advanced functionality and ability to import/export to different formats, would be nice!
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8bit-Dude
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by 8bit-Dude »

Well, it does not look like there is going to be any quick and easy solution... so I am gonna release in current state.
Let's hope I will get enough spare time in coming year to make a start at implementing this integrated IDE...
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by ibisum »

Hang on 8bit-Dude, we might still have something to do here - Chema's OASIS editor for Blakes 7 would be a pretty good place to start on a graphics system for Oric .. maybe we just need to give the guru's a couple days to think it over and digest the requirements a bit more, and we might find ourselves with more tools than we thought. I also remember Dbug having a great Oric graphics editor in his toolbox - maybe they're not ready for primetime, but if we discuss the requirements a bit more seriously, there is a likelihood we could get tooling sorted.

The key issue seems to be in the file formats specifications. Perhaps its possible that OASIS or Dbug's-editor can be modified to output files geared for use in 8-bit Unity, with little effort. I think everyone needs a bit of time to grok this, though ...
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by Dbug »

8bit-Dude wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:32 am Well, it does not look like there is going to be any quick and easy solution... so I am gonna release in current state.
Let's hope I will get enough spare time in coming year to make a start at implementing this integrated IDE...
The only easy and quick solution would be to have a version of the dungeon that boots immediately on the map and showing a special room with walls, floor, chests, character cycling through the various animation phases, and with a "quick rebuild and test" one click option, so you can basically editing a couple pixels in the PNG, rebuild and see the changes
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8bit-Dude
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Re: Request for Help (Pixel-Level Retouching)

Post by 8bit-Dude »

There is such version already: the tech demo disc!
Making manual changes can be achieved as follows:

In the file /projects/demos/src/demo.c: comment out all demos except DemoCharmap().

Replace the file /projects/demos/charsets/quedex-oric.png with PNG file of the AIC version showed above.

Finally, run /build/demos-oric.bat.
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