Oric Database

Want to talks about games you like, would like to see developed on the Oric, it's here.
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Steve M
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Re: Oric Database

Post by Steve M »

The original focus was on transfers of original tapes so there was not much interest in modified versions that appeared on disks, for example. I think I offered to copy some things years ago but it was rejected in favour of original tapes. I think the extra space that disks took up may have been a consideration back then.
Now we have more call for disk versions and people that have a preference either Oric-1 or Atmos versions.
We have problems now with modern devices like the Erebus requiring Atmos software with certain loading criteria. So do we have another field for Erebus downloads?
It's all got a bit confusing.
The Oric.org software section was based on my databases. You could tell in the past as it had all my mistakes like the spelling of 'Hebdologiciel' in my mangled way. The PD software and listings were all included and I never really thought out what all the fields should be, and I hadn't thought of including the actual software so the lists weren't set up with that in mind. A lot of work has gone into correcting my errors!
I think it could do with a bit of a rethink to show whether the software is a commercial release or a user group release or a download or type-in. I often can't tell. I copied some titles to my list which had a software house listed only to find they were not tapes at all. Some of the 'software house' names were similar to actual software houses.
I doubt anyone wants to go through all the software and mark what works on an Erebus though? There's all kinds of thing we could add, like disk versions, for Cumulus, or even Gotek files? But maybe the site wasn't meant for that? Maybe a separate Erebus page for those that want to do that. - I'm just mulling ideas over. I'm not sure what is best.

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Dbug
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Re: Oric Database

Post by Dbug »

I think we can clearly consider that disk space is not an issue anymore in 2020, so technically we could have as many versions of everything we want, without having storage problems.

The main way I see things is that there are two main use cases for a software database:
- Finding the software so you can run it
- Have a database usable as an archivist/documentation source

For the first case, obviously that means that if a version exist for Oric 1, one for Atmos, one patched/cracked/modified to run on emulator/erebus/whatever, one for disk drive, a modified one for Jasmin, etc... they all deserve to be there, and clearly identified as such.

For the second case, it means having proper cross references, like if there's a CEO or OUM disk that contains a version, it should appear on the main software page.

For example on https://demozoo.org/productions/123901/ we can see that my old "Shadow of the beast screen" on the Atari was released in 1991 and also "Packed" in the "Old Demos" compilation the same year, as well as in the "Demo CD 15" from the group NPG.

When doing my daily Tweets and Oriclopedia, what I struggled the most with was:
- Number of things that are missing or incomplete (had to ask for a number of Alistair Way games to Steve to do it!)
- Number of people appearing with incorrect or different spelling
- Search engine that does not work when you try to search by author or date + something

Ultimately I got the information I needed from a database json export that Jede help me with, and indeed most of the information you want is there, it's just difficult to access.

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Steve M
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Re: Oric Database

Post by Steve M »

Yes, I agree with that.

I think there's a problem with software not having an identifier so you can see whether it is Oric-1 or Atmos, (or other) by looking at it. The software on Oric.org gets copied and spread around with other archives renaming things. Filenames have got bigger with things like dates included and (often wrongly) attributed PD status, which could allegedly be a problem with Erebus.

It can be a problem for the user once we've downloaded a few hundred files that we can't tell which are Oric-1 programs and then we have people trying to load programs and saying they aren't working, when they do work on the right device. I wonder if there is any merit in having different filename extensions rather than just tap? But then it starts to over-complicate things. But it seems to be increasingly the case that we get people complaining about programs that 'don't work' and I wonder if there's a way to make things easier(?)

More search fields would be useful for Oric.org. It would help determine what type of software it is - but might involve a lot of work.

Ah, the Alistair Way - I still need to convert some things. I've got stuck with my old PC failing to boot. Do you know what I should put in my bios for DDR2 667 RAM pc2-5300 ? If I put the wrong information in it just crashes. With the default settings it's saying I don't have enough memory, so I think there's something wrong with the memory settings.

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Dbug
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Re: Oric Database

Post by Dbug »

Imo having multiple extensions would just add confusion :)

That being said, most os supports multiple extensions, so you could have:
- defence-force.tap
- defence-force.erebus.tap
- defence-force.oric1.tap

just an idea.
Ah, the Alistair Way - I still need to convert some things. I've got stuck with my old PC failing to boot. Do you know what I should put in my bios for DDR2 667 RAM pc2-5300 ? If I put the wrong information in it just crashes. With the default settings it's saying I don't have enough memory, so I think there's something wrong with the memory settings.
No idea, I've not played with these things in decades :D

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coco.oric
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Re: Oric Database

Post by coco.oric »

Personally, i'm using tosec name convention to store my oric software (https://www.tosecdev.org/tosec-naming-convention)
So i can keep some informations like the source of the file (with info [a ___] for my 3120 files. When i'm loading some packs, i'm just checking doubles stored in my directories (but i've not checked some ceo files and if a game is stored inside a disk.

Data are standardized and allows to keep crack version, language, editor, date ...
Title version (demo) (date)(publisher)(system)(video)(country)(language)(copyright)(devstatus)(media type)(media label)[cr][f][h][m][p][t][tr][o][v][a][!][more info]
coco.oric as DidierV, CEO Member
Historic owner of Oric, Apple II, Atari ST, Amiga

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Dbug
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Re: Oric Database

Post by Dbug »

I'm fine with the TOSEC naming, with just two issues:
- There are still people who use DOS machines to make DSK files on physical machines, so filenames that are not 8.3 may cause issues
- Is there an archive/folder system so we don't lose the extra data that SHOULD ALWAYS come with the games, such as the manuals, maps, info files, credits, etc...

Every time I see one of our games or demos released, without the manual in PDF, the eventual maps in PNG, and in the case of demos the .NFO file that explains what the demo is and who made it, I feel like calling a SWAT team to collect the offending people and put them in the Arkham Azylum to get tortured until the end of time.

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Symoon
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Re: Oric Database

Post by Symoon »

Dbug wrote:
Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:02 am
Every time I see one of our games or demos released, without the manual in PDF, the eventual maps in PNG, and in the case of demos the .NFO file that explains what the demo is and who made it, I feel like calling a SWAT team to collect the offending people and put them in the Arkham Azylum to get tortured until the end of time.
My feeling for the past 20 years :lol:

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Steve M
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Re: Oric Database

Post by Steve M »

Yes, indeed, it's a problem with other sites taking the software and offering as ROMs. They tend to rename the files as well so it results in misinformation as well as a lack of information.
Is it TOSEC the ROM sites use? They sometimes have something similar but lack information and the extra length of filename can be a problem for systems that don't recognise it.
All those other sources can't be corrected, but if file extensions .O1t or .Att, perhaps could be made acceptable, would it solve a problem? I guess it would still leave it for the user to understand they had to switch to Oric-1, which seems an effort for some , so I'm not sure it would have the desired effect.

It's probably safest to leave things as they are now and just add any Erebus files etc that are necessary. I think there is room for the Erebus to have both ROMS and a switch which I think would be beneficial for all those older Oric-1 games that people keep wanting.

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