Oric logo and trademark

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Godzil
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Oric logo and trademark

Post by Godzil » Mon Apr 29, 2019 9:22 pm

Does anyone in the Oric community is aware of that:

https://trademarks.ipo.gov.uk/ipo-tmcas ... 0003306145

Registered by Paul Andrews under one of his company (Andrews UK Limited) but probably for his other company Retrogames LTD:

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/09745704

Companies/people who are behind the ZX Vega, and the C64 Mini...

And when I see that: http://retro-computers.co.uk/daily-blog/
I'm super worried :/
Last edited by Godzil on Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chema
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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Chema » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:14 pm

Ugh... not sure what this means, but I get worries when someone pays for these kind of intellectual property rights on old computers and brands...

It's funny that the logo is not the original... surely that means something.

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iss
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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by iss » Mon Apr 29, 2019 10:50 pm

Yes, this is strange and a bit confusing for me.
With these 3 lines it looks more like the famous brand for sportwears :).
Anyway, in this case, I personally don't care and I will put always the original Oric logo where I want it. :)

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Chema
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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Chema » Mon Apr 29, 2019 11:34 pm

The only issue that might happen is that they are intending to make money with some kind of emulation product, so they get the rights for the ROM, and/or some software titles. Then they can start being a nuisance...

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by NekoNoNiaow » Tue Apr 30, 2019 4:24 am

Nothing to worry about really and the last link is actually not related at all to the first two.

Trademarks expire automatically if not manually renewed and the Oric trademark was available for quite a long time most likely.
The guys responsible for the C64 mini and other retro merchandise took advantage of that and filled for its (re)creation.

However, the logo is not trademark but copyrighted and that will not expire before many many decades, as Chema indicated this most likely means that they actually do not have the rights to the Oric intellectual property, only the trademark, so they must use another logo.

Likely this could mean that they are actually not authorized to use the Oric name without causing copyright infringement so I am not sure why they even bothered with the trademark...

This said, maybe this should be a wake up call by retro communities: when trademarks expire, they probably should buy them to make sure they are not re-appropriated again by unrelated vendors. ;)

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Godzil » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:52 am

The last link is u fortunately related. Same people behind. Lots of logos trademarked, sorry but that’s concerning.

I have no confidence in Paul Andrews being “better” than his friends of the ZX Vega and the C64 mini scams.

Oh and they just registered these logo (end of 2018) so they are not about to expire as it is a 10 years registration,

The logos are clearly “counterfeit” of the original, either to deceive, and it is not because it is different that they cannot use it to stop people using the original logo.

Yes it have nothing to do with the ROM IP, for which who ownnit has been long lost in the mess of Oric International / Oric Product International, but registering a logo like that is threatening, well, if it was ONLY the Oric logo, but no that’s some major system from that era that are not well protected (like BBC, Acton or Commodore, they haven’t registered the C64 logo for exemple, they also have registered logo for Jet Set Radio and Manic Miner which still clearly owned by its author and editor.

This is most likely to be a potential scam and has to be followed closely.

So for now be careful using the Oric logo, you don’t know what these people could do.

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Dbug » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:26 am

Godzil wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:52 am
they also have registered logo for Jet Set Radio and Manic Miner which still clearly owned by its author and editor.
You mean "Jet Set Willy" I guess.
If it's Jet Set Radio, that would be cool, because then we could unleash the wrath of Sega on them :)

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Steve M » Tue Apr 30, 2019 3:29 pm

Hmm. This firm seem to have several retro companies. Their application is for retro inspired products. I think our use is retro, not retro inspired and uses the original logo, not theirs.
I guess the owners of Oric has become obscured and it is hard to trace any official owner, but I think any original trademark is expired, though copyright will still exist, where it applies.

There are several organisations in existent using the Oric name including Oric International https://www.oricinternational.com/
http://www.oric.gov.au/
http://www.hie.co.uk/regional-informati ... /oric.html
http://www.oric.com/
https://oriconline.org/
https://www.fjwu.edu.pk/oric-office-of- ... alization/

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by mikeb » Tue Apr 30, 2019 6:08 pm

It's likely the original Oric/Atmos trademarks have lapsed, but, given that "Linux" originally was not a trademark at all, but was freely used -- until someone tried to trademark-squat on it, spuriously registering "Linux" and claiming ownership of it, before using it for financial shakedowns on anyone who ever used or sold under "his" brand -- Linux ... this got objected to and thrown out, the trademark was forcibly handed over to the Linux community.

People do try-on registering things with an intent to make money off those already using it. Not saying that's happening here, but there are methods to object to and overturn such things, where there is a clear LONG usage of that, or very similar marks, and it can only be an intent to deceive/extort money, as there is no legit reason for someone to take it up if they don't have an actual product and a real business use.

Definitely one to watch. If they are doing nefarious things, then it will only put the remaining Oric community offside with them, how they'd hope to make money off that, I don't know :(

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Godzil » Tue Apr 30, 2019 7:55 pm

Dbug wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:26 am
Godzil wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:52 am
they also have registered logo for Jet Set Radio and Manic Miner which still clearly owned by its author and editor.
You mean "Jet Set Willy" I guess.
If it's Jet Set Radio, that would be cool, because then we could unleash the wrath of Sega on them :)
:oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops: :oops:

Yes of course xD


Steve: yup, but you still can have the same name trademarked by different people/company as long it is not in the same classes.
There their logo even if different is way too close to the original Oric Atmos logo and that could cause issue if any of us use the original logo.... At least the register is only in the UK (for now)

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Chema » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:14 pm

I doubt the logo is the problem... but imagine they bundle an emulator with some list of games they get the rights of, and sell that as an Android/iOS bundle called NewOric or something.

They can start claiming us to retire the games from free download or something.

Or, worse, they could somewhat get the rights of the ROM and ask everyone to retire any ROM image around. Or with SEDORIC or Microdisc ROM and prevent people from having programs that use SEDORIC to boot or disk controllers that use the EPROM from being built and sold.

It is not that they have to do any of those, but I find it hard to see why they register an old logo (or something very similar). Maybe it is just to sell merchandise, who knows.

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Dbug » Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:55 pm

Chema wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:14 pm
I doubt the logo is the problem... but imagine they bundle an emulator with some list of games they get the rights of, and sell that as an Android/iOS bundle called NewOric or something.
Licence wise, can any of the actual good emulators (Euphoric, Oricutron, Clock, ...) be used in a commercial product?

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Symoon » Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:27 pm

Dbug wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:55 pm
Licence wise, can any of the actual good emulators (Euphoric, Oricutron, Clock, ...) be used in a commercial product?
There's the Android emulator, IIRC it was rather good (execpt the sound), and that the guy came here to ask for help said he intended to sell it. So why not.
That being said, I'm no too worried. I recall Tyrann on Android: it was a hit in France and the downloads amount disappointed its author. I don't think there's an interesting market for our machine.

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by NekoNoNiaow » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:49 pm

Dbug wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 8:55 pm
Licence wise, can any of the actual good emulators (Euphoric, Oricutron, Clock, ...) be used in a commercial product?
Good question. I think it is indeed a good idea to use non-commercial licenses for emulators.
This has the double advantage of not having one's work used unduly by someone else for profit, which is morally dubious, and to possibly provide a source of revenue (even if small) if some commercial entity wants to use the emulator. (See below.)
Symoon wrote:
Tue Apr 30, 2019 9:27 pm
There's the Android emulator, IIRC it was rather good (execpt the sound), and that the guy came here to ask for help said he intended to sell it. So why not.
That being said, I'm no too worried. I recall Tyrann on Android: it was a hit in France and the downloads amount disappointed its author. I don't think there's an interesting market for our machine.
This might change with ease of access. Antstream (cf which I backed) will allow very simple access to retro systems via emulation and streaming and if they eventually offer Oric titles, this might rekindle the interest for it.

They are certainly using emulators so if they plan to support Oric machines they would need to use one of the non MAME ones (Oricutron, Euphoric, CLK, etc.) since MAME's licence forbids commercial use. So, indeed, DBug's question is very pertinent: emulator authors should double check their license if they do not want a commercial entity to reuse their work for free.

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Re: Oric logo and trademark

Post by Steve M » Tue Apr 30, 2019 11:59 pm

The same company had a Jupiter Ace business which they closed down. It seems a bit odd to focus on such minor interest machines after working on C64.

I think we are OK using the original logo as it is not their retro-inspired one. Ours is the original. If anyone was infringing on trademark designs it would be them. Just a shame Oric isn't a going concern as there is no-one likely to step forward and object to this new log being registered. It would seem to me to be blatant plagarism.

It's interesting what results a search for 'Oric Logo' throw up. https://www.google.com/search?q=oric+lo ... 04&bih=911

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