Euphoric vs Oricutron

Comments, problems, suggestions about Oric emulators (Euphoric, Mess, Amoric, etc...) it's the right place to ask. And don't hesitate to give your tips and tricks that help using these emulations in the best possible way on your favorite operating system.
Post Reply
Godzil
Squad Leader
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Between UK and France
Contact:

Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Godzil » Thu Nov 26, 2015 6:12 pm

Behind the potential troll of this topic title, there is a real question I have:

Why do some people using "modern" computer (aka a computer that is at least able to run Windows XP, so virtually all PC Computer since 2001/2002) still use Euphoric, where Oricutron, especially since about 1 1/2 year, because much more usable that it was before, and I think is maybe not better in all points that Euphoric, the fact that it's easy to correct as it is Open Source and made of C and not mostly of assembly, help a lot (and the code organisation is much cleaner than the Euphoric one, honestly)

And Euphoric is still a DOS application! and Windows XP, and all 32bit version of Windows after are not the best platform to run that sort of DOS application that do a lot of direct hardware access.

I know that Fabrice recently made some changes to try to get a better support under the Windows NT line, but it's still a DOS application, and can't provide all the tools that Oricutron could use on a more modern platform.

I don't say that Euphoric is a bad emulator, or anything like that, just that it is not an emulator for any modern OS like Windows XP is, and unless really specific needs it should be avoided as much as possible.

It's a bit like if you where using RHIDE (or any other DOS based text editor) under windows to edit your project sources.

So could anyone explain to me why some people insist on using Euphoric?

User avatar
Chema
Game master
Posts: 1972
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:55 am
Location: Gijón, SPAIN
Contact:

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Chema » Thu Nov 26, 2015 8:09 pm

I imagine you are not worried about people using one or another, appart from mere curiosity... :)

I guess people use the emulator they are more confortable with. That simple. Today the best option, imho, is Oricutron: modern, multiplatform, etc. A few months back one good reason could be emulating a Telestrat, but now Oricutron supports it too (not sure to what extent or if there are any issues).

Being a DOS application Euphoric can be run in old computers, which could be handy. It also emulates some specific tech bits, but that's all.

The only one I would NOT recommend is the MESS Oric driver. It lacks many many features and does not support disk drives (or did not support them the last time I tried), but Euphoric vs Oricutron? Use the one that you like most!

We, developers, don't care as long as you play our games and watch our demos ;)


P.S. BTW, Oricutron is much better for playing Oricium, as it behaves perfectly when emulating the VSync Hack, so the above sentence should be qualified :)

User avatar
Symoon
Archivist
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:44 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Symoon » Thu Nov 26, 2015 9:41 pm

Chema spotted it, the main reason is I'm so used to Euphoric that I don't feel like I need to change (especially on tapes management).
But also, double-clicking on TAP files or DSK files to run them is quite handy. And Euphoric is still able to run things Oricutron doesn't (specific TAP routines).

So basically you got it: productivity by using the tool I've been using for 20 years now, and specific details in my works keep me happy with Euphoric (running directly on some of my XP machines, or through DosBox on others).

User avatar
Chema
Game master
Posts: 1972
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:55 am
Location: Gijón, SPAIN
Contact:

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Chema » Thu Nov 26, 2015 10:49 pm

Symoon wrote:And Euphoric is still able to run things Oricutron doesn't (specific TAP routines).
Which ones? Sounds interesting and maybe it can be fixed :) I found some issues when saving and loading arrays. I am not sure if this was solved.

User avatar
Symoon
Archivist
Posts: 1103
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:44 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Symoon » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:21 pm

I'm thinking of TAP files with special loading routines that use ROM calls to load bits from tape (and not bytes as most of them do).
Euphoric has two loading modes for TAP files:
call the "load byte" ROM routine and it will directly read a byte in the TAP file
call the "load bit" ROM routine and it will directly read a bit in the TAP file

Dom
2nd Star Corporal
Posts: 19
Joined: Sun Nov 25, 2012 7:00 pm

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Dom » Sun Nov 29, 2015 12:29 pm

As Chema and Symoon said, we simply use the emulator that we prefer. Why do we prefer one emumator to another? Probably because we are used to use it.
Is it all ? Maybe there are others reasons less practical :)
30 years ago, we discovered the fun of the "real computing" through the Oric.
Why are we all still attached to this machine?
20 years ago I rediscovered the Oric through Euphoric
Why am I still attached to Euphoric?
Perhaps, in both cases, for a similar reason ... A kind of gratitude, of fidelity?
Moreover, Fabrice still maintains Euphoric, which is now in the 1019 release.
As long as Fabrice's Euphoric continues to evolve, I think I will continue to use Euphoric, for the practical reasons but probably also for the reasons above. :)

Godzil
Squad Leader
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Between UK and France
Contact:

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Godzil » Sun Nov 29, 2015 6:54 pm

I haven't said that Euphoric was a bad emulator, just that even if Fabrice still maintain it, it's an outdated software as it rely on 16bit DOS, which is as old as an Oric! Microsoft no longuer directly support DOS since 1999/2001 (it was 16/14 years ago!) somewhat first with Windows Me, where the DOS was not directly accessible, and Windows XP where DOS they completely get rid of DOS. And now with 64bit version of Windows, DOS is no longer an option without using an emulator like DosBOX as it no longer work on these version.

I don't mind about Fabrice updating Euphoric, but we have to be realist, a DOS application these day is something completely out of time, and when I see new Oric users are going to use Euphoric, I find that a bit stupid.

It's not about the age of Euphoric, it's more about the technological choices that still remind and bind it to an environment which is no longer supported, and for an emulator which is basically a tool to maintain something from the past in the present, sounds a bit funny. If Fabrice was to make a (real) Windows (or better a portable) version of Euphoric I may be the first to says "wow look it's maybe the best Oric emulator on Earth" but right now I tend to avoid Euphoric, even if I used it for years now, just because of that.

I know that contrast with the fact that I still used object from the past, like the Oric, but I still think at the same time that we have to use modern tool, even when it come to use old objets, I strongly prefer to use my Oric using the Cumulus than a Microdisc even if I own both, when a RetroComputing association told me they wanted to have an oric, and really want to obtain a microdisc to show the device working as it was at the time, I told them:

"Seriously? The microdisc is one of the hardest thing to get on the Oric, especially a working one, and when you have something like the Cumulus, there is absolutely no benefit in trying to get a microdisc, unless you want to put the Oric on a shelve and don't want to show it working. If your idea is to show the computer working, get a Cumulus, you will have access to the whole floppy without the pain of finding all the original floppy"
(I think they are even harder to find than a Telestrat...)

Brana
Flying Officer
Posts: 150
Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 8:30 pm
Contact:

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Brana » Fri Jan 29, 2016 9:31 pm

Tried Oricutron..
It "didn't like" my (under Euphoric created) TAP files..

Link to the image:
http://forum.defence-force.org/download ... &mode=view

(It loaded them OK, but on each Cload or Recall command - enclosed image popped-up on which I had to click OK to continue)

Fixed that?
Oricutron can work on Android faster than 2,5Mhz Oric CPU that Euphoric under DosBox can?
If so, then please let me know :D

Godzil
Squad Leader
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Between UK and France
Contact:

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Godzil » Fri Jan 29, 2016 11:10 pm

Brana wrote:Tried Oricutron..
It "didn't like" my (under Euphoric created) TAP files..

Link to the image:
http://forum.defence-force.org/download ... &mode=view
Could you please create a new issue on the Oricutron github page:
https://github.com/pete-gordon/oricutron/issues

It would be much more easier to track potential issues

User avatar
Chema
Game master
Posts: 1972
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:55 am
Location: Gijón, SPAIN
Contact:

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Chema » Sat Jan 30, 2016 2:54 pm

I already reported this error (check my post at the bottom of http://forum.defence-force.org/viewtopi ... 1&start=45 and even a possible cause a couple of posts later).

I could get all this info and open an issue in github...

User avatar
Steve M
Flight Lieutenant
Posts: 397
Joined: Fri Mar 24, 2006 3:33 am
Location: Cumbria, UK
Contact:

Re: Euphoric vs Oricutron

Post by Steve M » Sat Mar 11, 2017 11:22 pm

I use Euphoric on the old PC system that has DOS as it reads and writes floppies - at least the tools do.
I was more used to Euphoric and I seem to remember it emulating the MCP40 which was nice.

If I need to transfer things I have to crank up an old PC so Euphoric works. I don't recall if I have tried Oricutron on it. I use Oricutron on my more modern PC which doesn't have a floppy connector.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests