Cumulus Issues

In this forum you can write about anything that does not fit in other forums.
This includes generic Oric talkings and things that are totaly unrelated but want to share with people here :)
Dom
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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by Dom » Mon Jul 07, 2014 11:35 pm

Thanks for the link Chema.
however, we are in the strange oric world ...
This 8 roms Oric works well with the Cumulus, while the non modified Atmos does'nt ...

Image

I agrree with you, it might be interresting to understand why the "normal" ATMOS do not work.
But the fact is that I'm not able to do that. I just remember a kind of formula like U=RI ? from the old school days :D
I think I will bring this ATMOS with me to the next CEO meeting. Perhaps CEO's Hardware experts, could help.

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Chema
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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by Chema » Tue Jul 08, 2014 8:46 am

Ah, yes. Sorry I misunderstood.

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Dbug
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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by Dbug » Tue Jul 08, 2014 9:59 am

I guess the good thing is that we have at least now a large consistent baseline: The cumulus devices are almost identical (apart the two different display controllers), use the same components, built by the same person, and running the same code.

The only differences are on the Oric side; which is much better than trying to solve the equation with real floppy drives with different models of components, added wires here and there, etc... :)

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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by NightBird » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:18 pm

NightBird: You tested all of your oric with both cumulus?
Hi, - all units tested with Cumulus #1 and 9V 14.4VA PSU and
- all units tested with Cumulus #2 and 9V 9VA PSU.

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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by NightBird » Sun Jul 13, 2014 4:33 pm

Dbug wrote:I guess the good thing is that we have at least now a large consistent baseline: The cumulus devices are almost identical (apart the two different display controllers), use the same components, built by the same person, and running the same code.

The only differences are on the Oric side; which is much better than trying to solve the equation with real floppy drives with different models of components, added wires here and there, etc... :)
I agree. please find below an update of my compatibility tab between my Oric units and Cumulus. For the unit #7, the main issue was a DRAM (ok for a standalone boot but nok with Cumulus). Need to put all DRAM on sockets, put a new set of DRAM (ok), then change one by one until to find the faulty DRAM (my LEAPER 10 tester said this 'faulty' DRAM is ok)...

Remark: my 30 years old ORIC PSU would not boot a standalone ORIC (not enough current). I replace the capacitor (4700uF/16V) and the 4 diodes (4 x 1N4007), and now it works with Cumulus 8)

I have two other units with 'randomized characters on boot screen', I will do same test, to be continue...
Attachments
cumulus_compatibility_update1.png
cumulus_compatibility_update1.png (3.86 KiB) Viewed 6626 times

NightBird
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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by NightBird » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:40 am

Oric unit #10 is now fixed. Same problem as #7: 1 DRAM changed:
cumulus_compatibility_update2.png
cumulus_compatibility_update2.png (4.29 KiB) Viewed 6598 times
Remember: before DRAM change, unit worked fine in standalone mode...

Here are 2 pictures of boot screen before change, showing the 'randomized characters on boot screen':
randomized_chars_on_boot_ex2.png
randomized_chars_on_boot_ex1.png
Need to check the third unit (#8)... To be continue...

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peacer
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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by peacer » Mon Jul 14, 2014 9:50 am

NightBird wrote:
Dbug wrote:I guess the good thing is that we have at least now a large consistent baseline: The cumulus devices are almost identical (apart the two different display controllers), use the same components, built by the same person, and running the same code.

The only differences are on the Oric side; which is much better than trying to solve the equation with real floppy drives with different models of components, added wires here and there, etc... :)
I agree. please find below an update of my compatibility tab between my Oric units and Cumulus. For the unit #7, the main issue was a DRAM (ok for a standalone boot but nok with Cumulus). Need to put all DRAM on sockets, put a new set of DRAM (ok), then change one by one until to find the faulty DRAM (my LEAPER 10 tester said this 'faulty' DRAM is ok)...

Remark: my 30 years old ORIC PSU would not boot a standalone ORIC (not enough current). I replace the capacitor (4700uF/16V) and the 4 diodes (4 x 1N4007), and now it works with Cumulus 8)

I have two other units with 'randomized characters on boot screen', I will do same test, to be continue...
My PSU is giving 12 V and over 12 VA, not 9 V. it runs Oric and microdisc drive at the same time well. But as you know Cumulus doesn't work..

Does anyone has idea why my Oric works with 12 V, Not 9 V ? I know that, we have tried with adjustable PSU and 9V was not enough.

I am still worrying if failure of my cumulus is due to PSU or not but, without cumulus attached, Oric and microdisc drive works perfectly with this PSU .

About DRAM, I can tell you that, my rams were changed few years ago. Maybe that is the problem..

P.S. My display becomes exactly the same as this when cumulus is attached.
Image

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ibisum
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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by ibisum » Mon Jul 14, 2014 10:54 am

So, I had this problem with my beta Cumulus, which was similar to yours, where I got different 'kinds' of system corruption depending on the power supply I used. I finally settled on one providing only 12V, 1.5A, and not a 'configurable' PS (like, with a voltage selector). I tried multiples of those, too. The point is not 1.5A/configurable, though: try as many different power supplies as you can, and maybe you will find one with the right/least amount of noise, perhaps?

I confess to not having a working scope, or I'd dive deeper into these variant supplies, but maybe its just a missing resistor somewhere, lol, and I have no idea how to find that. :)

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Chema
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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by Chema » Mon Jul 14, 2014 1:08 pm

This DRAM thing is quite interesting... Maybe at least we found one source of problems? are the specs of those DRAMs different from original Oric RAM chips?

On the 12V PSU, I'm no expert in this field, but as far as I know the voltage regulator inside the Oric will convert everything above 5V in heat. You cannot use 5V directly, but I think 7.5V should be enough. 9V might even be quite a lot, creating heat problems. Not sure if plugging 12V is a good idea.

As I said before I am using an Spectrum+ PSU (9v, 1.5 A) with the polarity reversed and it works perfectly with my standalone Oric, with my Microdisc Clone, and with my Cumulus.

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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by NightBird » Mon Jul 14, 2014 3:42 pm

Chema wrote:This DRAM thing is quite interesting... Maybe at least we found one source of problems? are the specs of those DRAMs different from original Oric RAM chips?
What are these specs :) (I do not know exactly: 4164-150 ns?).
On the 12V PSU, I'm no expert in this field, but as far as I know the voltage regulator inside the Oric will convert everything above 5V in heat. You cannot use 5V directly, but I think 7.5V should be enough. 9V might even be quite a lot, creating heat problems. Not sure if plugging 12V is a good idea.
Right, here are 2 pictures after changing, on original PSU - 9V 6.75VA - old capacitor and diodes with new parts (same values: 4700 µF 16 V and 4 x 1N4007),
Oric_PSU_with_new_capa_and_diodes.png
and now it works well with Cumulus, measured current = 850 mA, not heat problem.
850mA_with_Cumulus_and_ORIC_PSU.png

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Chema
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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by Chema » Mon Jul 14, 2014 11:30 pm

Just as a side note. Remember I had problems when booting Sedoric the first times (even the cumulus itself seemed to hang) then, after reset everything started working perfectly forth wrest of the session? Well, I tried today with the Amplibus attached and those problems are gone. Or they seem to.

My amplibus came with Silicebit's Microdisc clone. So it may be a good idea to connect Cumulus through an amplibus if you have one. No idea why.

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Chema
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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by Chema » Tue Jul 15, 2014 10:21 am

NightBird wrote: What are these specs :) (I do not know exactly: 4164-150 ns?).
I think so. My memory chips are labeled M3764-RS15 from Oki, which I think are 4164-150 ns indeed. Anyway I know very little about these things. Attracting the attention from an expert in the field would be nice...

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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by NightBird » Tue Jul 15, 2014 9:32 pm

peacer wrote:About DRAM, I can tell you that, my rams were changed few years ago. Maybe that is the problem..
Hi, found a very interesting thing tonight. Perhaps it can solve your problem.

My third unit is fixed:
cumulus_compatibility_update3.png
cumulus_compatibility_update3.png (9.95 KiB) Viewed 6533 times
Yet another DRAM changed, but I noticed on the 2 previous repairs, that the problem was fixed when I changed the last DRAM : IC12. So, tonight, I decided to change only IC12 on the 3rd unit. And it works!
Only chance? I do not think so, because IC12 is D7 (bit 7), and D7 is a little bit special on Microdisc. This line can be driven, and maybe the Cumulus is 'more severe' than Microdisc (Cumulus schematic quickly examined but did not saw a specific problem).

So, peacer, try to change only IC12 with other DRAM... Maybe...
change_IC12_.png
Now I will test different DRAM trademark to establish a 'compatibiliy' list... Try to understand... To be continue!

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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by peacer » Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:42 am

Now the problem is, where can I find one DRAM ?

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Re: Cumulus Issues

Post by Godzil » Wed Jul 16, 2014 9:31 am

Chema wrote:Just as a side note. Remember I had problems when booting Sedoric the first times (even the cumulus itself seemed to hang) then, after reset everything started working perfectly forth wrest of the session? Well, I tried today with the Amplibus attached and those problems are gone. Or they seem to.

My amplibus came with Silicebit's Microdisc clone. So it may be a good idea to connect Cumulus through an amplibus if you have one. No idea why.
Be careful, the Cumulubus is an Amplibus, or some sort, and connecting two in a row may cause other problem (as it will add more delay on each lines)

It may work on some Oric, but also could cause problem on other..

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