OType

Want to talks about games you like, would like to see developed on the Oric, it's here.
Godzil
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Re: OType

Post by Godzil » Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:05 am

I've just discover this topic, wow another incredible work from Twi...
This guy was so prolific..

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ibisum
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Re: OType

Post by ibisum » Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:07 pm

Hey sure was, Godzil. Sometimes I quite miss his enthusiasm, but then I'm glad we've got the current crop of geniuses around to keep us amused. Twi certainly set the standard high - I doubt we'll get another Oric hacker as talented as he was, any time soon - but I'd sure like to be wrong about that.

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Dbug
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Re: OType

Post by Dbug » Sun May 27, 2018 3:44 pm

And for the ones who wonder what the game looks like in action:



(Thought it would be a good idea to remember him by showing his unfinished games).

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Chema
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Re: OType

Post by Chema » Sun May 27, 2018 4:48 pm

Indeed... good idea Dbug.

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ibisum
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Re: OType

Post by ibisum » Sun May 27, 2018 8:00 pm

I've been reading the sources for OType this past week, but I'm really struggling with a few things .. Twi really was in a league of his own when it came to these titles. So much to learn ..

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peacer
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Re: OType

Post by peacer » Sun May 27, 2018 8:38 pm

I admired him again, and seeing his latest posts made me so sad...

He passed beyond limits of Oric many times and this game is another one.

Smooth and colorfoul scrolling is really perfect and makes me amazed.

This reminds me my relatively very very very primitive "unfinished" experiment "Oric raid"



Of course, comparing this with Otype is just arrogance and I am not aiming to do such comparison.

But, what I think is, Otype is really very detailed and comprehensive game. Perhaps its really possible to build simpler "river-raid" game for Oric with such bit-scrolling style like O-type. It could be much easier than OType i think. Level-maps of original river-raid is available. I could be willing to participate such project if I have any chance.

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Chema
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Re: OType

Post by Chema » Sun May 27, 2018 9:04 pm

If I remember correctly the tricky part was indeed getting a smooth vertical scroll of the play area (that is why it is relatively small).

I remember he struggled with that for a while and not sure if the speed of the demo was convincing for him :) Maybe we could try to design some crazy demo-like ultra fast vertical scroll and give the game a reborn...

I have to say the game was too complex to grasp for me, including many levels with different gameplays. I would be happy with some kind of vertical shoot-em-up with different vehicles if you could put enough enemies and make fast shots (which are another important challenge).

And then, of course, Twilighte's wonders... Those graphics and colours are amazing and beyond most of us mortals.

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ibisum
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Re: OType

Post by ibisum » Sun May 27, 2018 9:21 pm

Definitely, Chema - those colours and the sprites and the scrolling in general just fill me with wonder at what could have been, had we had Twi's genius back in the day, showing the world what the Oric could do... I'm still struck with awe that this is an Oric demo - it just doesn't connect, in my mind .. even though of course, it really does.

I'd love to participate in either continued development of OType, or some sort of rejuvenation/refactoring into a new game - or even learning some of his tricks and applying them to a River Raid kind of game. I'm still doing a lot of code reading, however - I'm keeping notes, and I think I will try to produce a report in a few weeks, of what I'm finding. My main motivation is to do my own style "Upgrade", a la DBug, of an older Oric app, giving it a new skin and using some new graphics to make the app more interesting/usable in todays Oric context .. and at the same time, booting up my own understanding of how to do cool, smooth, scrolling and colourful graphics on the Oric.

It is really a challenge, but with Twi's shining examples, a lot more inspiring than it might be.

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NekoNoNiaow
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Re: OType

Post by NekoNoNiaow » Mon May 28, 2018 6:44 am

Thanks DBug for the video!
The graphics and the smoothness of the scrolling are indeed astounding, I tried hard to catch any hint of an attribute clash but could not see any.

I am in awe alongside everyone since the game looks technically way above commercial grade quality of Oric games back in the day. The only gripe I would have would be that the scrolling seems a little bit too fast which would possibly cause a bit of trouble in the gameplay department but that certainly could be tuned eventually.

But I wonder about something: in the video, most of the sprites move only vertically and the game clearly looks like it uses AIC so I was wondering if that technique allows sprites to move precisely alongside the horizontal axis without attribute issues or if the sprites are actually limited to 6 pixels lateral moves?

Additionally, that music is great, is that also the original Oric music?

Finally, I tried to load the O'Type first demo linked to in the first post of this thread by Twilighte but it does not seem to work on Clock Signal so I was wondering if others had been able to make it run in other emulators?
Link : http://www.defence-force.org/ftp/forum/ ... emos/d.tap

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ibisum
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Re: OType

Post by ibisum » Mon May 28, 2018 7:21 am

I believe the horizontal scroll is done on 6-pixel boundaries, but I could be wrong about that.

And yes, that music is f'in BADASS. I wanna hear it from a real Oric ..

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Symoon
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Re: OType

Post by Symoon » Mon May 28, 2018 7:33 am

There are many different demos for O-Type, that show the project evolved from different ideas.
You can still get the CEO-Mag issue dedicated to Jonathan, where IIRC I tried to sum up all these, maybe it can help (however I'm not sure I put links where to download them)

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Chema
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Re: OType

Post by Chema » Mon May 28, 2018 10:31 am

Twilighte did wonders with the Oric's AY... Pity we don't have the information about how he did those things. He experimented with many many different techniques. One of them was adding 'colour' to the notes by using the Envelope generator at certain frequencies. Unfortunately, that means no volume control (which, for our Orics, means disturbing everyone in a radius of 10Km).

He was working on a new Music Tracker for all this, but I never saw it. I used Wave 2.0 which is incredible (the Impossible Mission tune for which we only have a video, no data to replay it, is made with this tool), but it had two drawbacks:

- 2.0 version never had a compiler, so you could only hear the music from within the editor.
- Earlier versions had a compiler, but not cool effects such as per note volume control or pitchbends. Also the generated data+player was quite big and resource consuming, IIRC.

He abandoned WAVE in favour of the new editor, but I think it was never finished. I wonder how he did this song...

That vertical scroll is made in steps of two lines, else AIC won't work. I also bet horizontal movements are limited to scans if inverse bits are set. Else it is not necessary, but it would be obviously much slower.

I always end up shocked in awe with his Impossible Mission theme:

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ibisum
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Re: OType

Post by ibisum » Mon May 28, 2018 10:34 am

Balls, I wish we had sources for these things. Just more motivation to crack into the monitor and just read the assembly... listening it seems he also coded parameter-based effects, such as a delay and reverb as well ..

I can imagine that the way he does the portamento effects is by shifting the EG into a higher-frequency mode towards the end of the note, causing a pitch bend effect .. this is a common technique in synthesisers, but to hear it from the Oric is just mind-blowing.

Well, gotta get back to my OricSynth project then .. fully inspired as usual by the spirit of Twilighte...

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Symoon
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Re: OType

Post by Symoon » Mon May 28, 2018 10:51 am

I recall I found back some data for this tune, but it didn't exactly match the one in the video. Can't recall how different it was, but I can try and find it back if you wish.

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ibisum
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Re: OType

Post by ibisum » Mon May 28, 2018 4:25 pm

Honestly, I think we ought to make an effort to produce the Twilighte Archive of *everything* every one of us has from him ..

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