Microdisc/Jasmin floppies work with 9x/XP/Vista/Seven !!!!

Anything related to the tools Tap2Wav, Tap2CD, Tap2Dsk, Sedoric Disc Manager, Tape Header Creator, WriteDsk, and generaly speaking tools related to the management of Oric data files and devices.
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waskol
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Microdisc/Jasmin floppies work with 9x/XP/Vista/Seven !!!!

Post by waskol » Tue Oct 13, 2009 10:14 pm

Hello, do you know Omniflop ?
OmniFlop is a ‘universal’ floppy disk reader, writer, and tester for the IBM PC or compatible which can handle alien floppy disk formats not normally supported by DOS, Windows and Linux.
website : http://www.shlock.co.uk/Utils/OmniFlop/OmniFlop.htm

Well, this last days I was trying to read my 3,5" (Jasmin II formatted) floppies on my PC under Windows Vista. In fact I would like so much to format them and fill them from Vista !

And I found Omniflop ! ;)

For the moment I just succeeded in getting a disk image of my floppies, this tools is ale to discover by itself the geometry and read them.

I then contacted the author since he is looking to new disks formats to be included in his driver and software.

It would be great if all people that use 3" or 3,5" oric floppies on their PC in MS-Dos (and would like to have some decent tools for Win95,98,Me, NT, 2000, 2003, Vista, Seven or even Linux !) could send him a few samples (geometry files and image files) of their microdiscs, Jasmin or Cumana disks like I did.

The procedure is simple, after installation of the software, you launch the Omniflop executable and choose :

- Readdisk : in order to build a disk image. (.img file)
- Diagnostics--> Test disk : in order to "discover" the geometry of your disk ( example result of a FTDos "Master disk" : 41/2/17x256 AS D04 N01 <00 R02 H2 MFM {0,1} 10101 I1 )
- Diagnostics-->Get disk map : to scan the disk map to a file. (.ofm file)

That could be very usefull for everybody !
Once those new formats integrated to its software, wewill be able to read, write and format our floppies from modern OSes.


Here follows my correspondance so far with the author of this very nice software, from newest e-mail to oldest (start from the end !) :
(emailed today)
Hello Jason !
Thank you for your nice work too,

It is not really a discovery since all the Oric uses this format on 3" floppies (Amstrad like) for years. :)
Now we are a bit obliged to replace our 3" drives with a 3"1/2 one !
Let's say It is not my discovery but rather an "Oric community rediscovery".

About the licence of those formats and almost everything about Oric products, Jasmin drive, Microdisc drive, etc... do not worry, they are now free and open to everyone.

I will try to get in touch with other Oric fans in order to send you the formats they use too (with the Oric Microdisk), so that you will get some more feedback and disk images to study. :)

I am sure that your software will be acclaimed by all people using those old micro-computers.

Best regards,
Wilfrid

----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Joe Watton (Hotmail)
To: Wilfrid AVRILLON
Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2009 6:52 PM
Subject: Re: New floppy format (+at least a new one)


Thank you very much, Wilfred.

If this is a new format - I haven't checked yet, but I think it is! - then you get the credit for its discovery!

Thanks!

I will add the formats **properly** so they are recognised and - if you can confirm they work - remove the need for any sort of license.

> By the way, what is the structure of an .img file ? (thank you)

It is pure dump of sector data.

The sector data is written to the file in the order:

Cylinder 0/Head 0/Sectors 1 through 16 (or 17)
Cylinder 0/Head 1/Sectors 1 through 16 (or 17)
Cylinder 1/Head 0/Sectors 1 through 16 (or 17)
Cylinder 1/Head 1/Sectors 1 through 16 (or 17)
Cylinder 2/Head 0/Sectors 1 through 16 (or 17)
Cylinder 2/Head 1/Sectors 1 through 16 (or 17)
...

and so on until the whole disk is dumped.

This is for the default "Standard disk image" file format (*.img). If you choose another file format then this can change.

I hope this helps.

I will be back once I have added the formats.

Thanks again!

Jason.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wilfrid AVRILLON
To: Jason Joe Watton (Hotmail)
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 1:34 PM
Subject: Re: New floppy format (+at least a new one)


Hello Jason,

It's a new format only for your wonderfull program ;)
I attach here the disk map of a "Master disk" (Jasmin2_master.ofm) and of a "non-Master" (standard) disk (Jasmin2.ofm)

Some technical data I confirm :
Oric Jasmin and Oric Jasmin II : 41/2/17x256 (about 357Kb)
Oric Microdisc : 40/2/17x256

Those are commonly used formattings, since Jasmin and Microdisc system can format and use floppies in the flavor you want, but generally : 40, 41 or 42 sectors, 16 or 17 sectors, 1 or 2 sides, 256 bytes.

That would be good to recognize those combinations because, for instance, if I format a Master disk with my Jasmin, it will be 41/2/17x256
All my non-master disks report this format : 42/2/17x256 AS D04 N01 <00 R02 H2 MFM {0,1} 10101 I1

Anyway, I just discover your software and it does some miracles (Oric disks images on Vista, wow !)
Now, I just have to write a piece of code in order to convert my .dsk files (emulated disk format) into img files.
By the way, what is the structure of an .img file ? (thank you)

Best Regards,
Wilfrid

----- Original Message -----
From: Jason Joe Watton (Hotmail)
To: Wilfrid AVRILLON
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 10:11 AM
Subject: Re: New floppy format


Hello Wilfrid,

Thank you for this - it looks like a new format.

If possible, can you send me a Disk Map to make sure, please? The format code generated can't always show the details of the format. Go to Diagnostics >> Get Disk Map and send the file (*.ofm) to me. That way I can be sure of the format.

Thanks again!

Jason.
----- Original Message -----
From: Wilfrid AVRILLON
To: jasonwatton@hotmail.com
Sent: Friday, October 09, 2009 7:42 AM
Subject: New floppy format


Hello,

This is the format of the Jasmin 2 Drive, old drive used in 80's for Oric 1 and Oric Atmos 8-bits microcomputers.


OmniFlop v2.2c Format: 41/2/17x256 AS D04 N01 <00 R02 H2 MFM {0,1} 10101 I1 Format name: TRAN Jasmin II

This is an Oric 1 :
http://www.system-cfg.com/detailcollect ... ?ident=156

This is an Oric Atmos :
http://www.system-cfg.com/detailcollection.php?ident=54


there was several Floppy drive controllers used with them , both using 3" floppies :
Oric Microdisk and Jasmin (I use the v2 of the Jasmin) :
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oric (sorry the wikipedia article is in french, translate with google ;) ).

I easily replaced the old 3" drive (with 360K floppies) by a standard 3,5" drive on my Jasmin II and it works perfectly (I use double density floppis "transformed into "single density with the hole trick)
A lot of people did the same with Oric Microdisk.


Jasmin was commercialized by the TRAN company, based in Toulon, France

Oric Microdisk and Jasmin, did not use the same floppy format (I think) : the controllers do not provide the same set of instructions to the Oric.

If you need some more explanations (I wrote the mail in a hurry), you can contact me anytime.
Cheers.
Wilfrid AVRILLON
Last edited by waskol on Sun Oct 25, 2009 2:32 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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waskol
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Post by waskol » Sun Oct 25, 2009 1:17 pm

Some news !
Jasmin floppies are working with omniflop now !!!

Jason just updated it's utility.

I just succeeded in Reading a Jasmin formatted disk (3,5") , formatting and writing a new one from the image file I got, and under Windows VISTA32 !!

wow !!!! :P

go and grab his magical utility there : http://www.shlock.co.uk/Utils/OmniFlop/OmniFlop.htm

It would be really great if Microdisc had also some support : do not let your Oric die, please !

At least, it would be great if anyone could confirm me the a typical floppy Microdisc geometry :
Tracks/Sectors/Sides/number of bytes by sector

for instance : Jasmin --> 41/17/2/256

thanks by advance.


You will find a tested and proven FTDos image working with Omniflop on our SVN :

http://miniserve.getmyip.com/svn/users/ ... /FTDOS.img

If, like me, you replaced the 3" drive of your Jasmin by a modern 3,5", you have to use double density disk, i.e :
- Floppies with 1 notch (you can get some DD floppies on Amiga shops like www.vesalia.de or http://www.amigakit.com/)
- You can use standard HD floppies : To use a High Density disk for a Double Density format you can tape over the 'High Density' hole with black tape as a last resort, but the results aren't guaranteed. (It works perfect for me ;) )


Remainder :
3½" Double Density disks:
* are often marked "720kB", "DD", "QD","1MB capacity (unformatted)"
* have one notch in the corner, for write protect.

3½" High Density disks:
* are often marked "1.44MB", "2HD", "HD","2MB capacity (unformatted)"
* have two notches in the corners, one for write protect, the other to indicate High Density.

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Post by jede » Sun Oct 25, 2009 3:23 pm

Hello,

Very interesting i will have a look to this

Thanks

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Dbug
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Post by Dbug » Sun Oct 25, 2009 8:07 pm

Sounds good.
In theory if it works with the Jasmin it should also work with the Microdisc, the formats are not that different, and the controlers are mostly compatible :)

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waskol
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Post by waskol » Mon Oct 26, 2009 12:58 am

Dbug wrote:Sounds good.
In theory if it works with the Jasmin it should also work with the Microdisc, the formats are not that different, and the controlers are mostly compatible :)
Just try it ! It will read and detect the geometry of your Microdisc floppy : guaranteed ! (provided the fact the floppy controller of your motherboard can handle it : for instance, with my Asus Maximus Formula (Intel X38 chipset), it works ; with my Asrock 939 Dual SATA-2, nope (VIA chipset if I remember well) )

In fact it's software already works with Amstrad, BBC micro, Spectrum, Atari ST, Amiga, etc...

Jason Watton, the author, just need a couple of files in order to implement any new format ;)
He has included the Jasmin format in just a week (and some extra formats I use too : 40/2/17x256 , 41/2/17x256 and 42/2/17x256)

The thing is that for each format provided, it has to teach it's software how to handle it for every FDC :

The most effort is required to add a format - I have to accommodate all the various PC/floppy drive combinations.

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Re: Microdisc/Jasmin floppies work with 9x/XP/Vista/Seven !!

Post by Garrettimus » Sun Aug 19, 2012 1:28 pm

Do you guys know whether or not it's possible to use OmniFlop to convert .DSK images to actual floppies for using with the original Microdisc?

By the way, OmniFlop is awesome, I use it regularly for generating floppies for both an Amstrad CPC 6128 and an Acorn Archimedes.

:D

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