Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Anything related to the tools Tap2Wav, Tap2CD, Tap2Dsk, Sedoric Disc Manager, Tape Header Creator, WriteDsk, and generaly speaking tools related to the management of Oric data files and devices.
User avatar
Symoon
Archivist
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:44 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Symoon » Sun Jun 22, 2014 12:35 pm

This is driving me crazy :x .
I'm trying to get a reliable way to read a track, to make a universal disk transfer tool.
So thanks to Fabrice, I'm using the Sedoric routines (at $CFCD in Sedoric kernel - see Sedoric à Nu page 179 for details).

This is done by setting some parameters (drive, track, data storage buffer), then sending a $E0 (read track) command at the FDC with the $CFCD routine.
All seems to be fine except that some bytes, always at value $C2, are either inserted in the reading, either crush existing bytes. Ouch.
I tried this on NightBird's hardware at the last meeting and we had those $C2 bytes too, so my hardware is not to blame (or both are to blame ;))

By using Nibble, which reads tracks too, I noticed this didn't seem to happen.
I took a look at the code and the track reading is similar to the code I used, except there was 1st a $18 command (set the head on the right track). So I modified my code but still have the same problem.
I made a small program counting the $C2 bytes in the reading buffer once the track has been read. Here are the results:
- on Euphoric, both my method and Nibble read the track, 4 bytes at $C2 are read
- on a real Oric, tried twice, with my method 144 (!!!) bytes at $C2 are read
- on a real Oric, tried twice, with Nibble 2.4, 19 or 20 bytes at $C2 are read

I absoutely don't understand why there are such errors ans differences.
Any idea on what happens?

User avatar
Dbug
Site Admin
Posts: 2325
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:00 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Dbug » Sun Jun 22, 2014 8:58 pm

Are you reading using an IRQ, or by polling the registers - and if polling, have you disabled the IRQs ?

User avatar
Symoon
Archivist
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:44 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Symoon » Sun Jun 22, 2014 9:21 pm

I must confess I don't really know (as I don't really know what polling registers means ;) )
I (as well as Nibble it seems) don't handle anything, just set a few parameters and call the reading routine.

The reading routine (quite big) is described in Sedoric à Nu from page 179 to page 186. Unless I spend a few days on it, it is so far a bit beyond my understanding. It seems to read FDC registers (in page 3) and use IRQs but I'm not sure it is what you asked.

What puzzles me is that apprently this routine is called in the same way by both programs, and gives such different results :?

Godzil
Squad Leader
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Between UK and France
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Godzil » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:02 am

polling mean that you have a tight loop where you read the register and exit the loop when the value you want is set on this register.

The difference between polling and IRQ approach is the first is a synchrone way to synchronise, the other is an asynchrone way.

Both have advantages and disavantages.

Polling/synchrone consume a lot of CPU time and power and you can't do anything when waiting, but the code is easier to make.
IRQ/asynchrone consume less CPU as you don't read the register, just "wait" for the IRQ to trigger and you can do whatever you want during the wait time. The drawback is that the code could be much complexe than polling.

User avatar
Chema
Game master
Posts: 1973
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:55 am
Location: Gijón, SPAIN
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Chema » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:58 am

I am a bit confused...

You say that nibble does not have this problem, but in your tests it does include the spurious bytes?

Maybe if you could post the code, it would help. I am not used to complete track reading routines in Sedoric...

However to seek for a track+sector (put the heads at the correct position) my code is a bit different. It uses command $1c, not $18 and you must wait for the command to complete successfully or with some error. This is done by reading $0314 until the highest bit is clear and check $0310 for any error:

Code: Select all

seek_track 
   lda #$1C 
   jsr wait_completion 
   and #$18   ; seek error or CRC error ? 
   beq seek_ok 
   jsr restore_track0 
   beq seek_track 
seek_ok 
   rts 


wait_completion 
   lda $0314 
   bmi wait_completion 
   lda $0310
   rts 
I don't know if there is a different command to seek for a track or you have to order the seek of track+sector with sector 0 (or was it 1?).

And after reading, I check the success of the operation by reading $0310 this way:

Code: Select all

  
   lda $0310   ; gets status
   and #$7c 
   beq success 
   dec restart_counter 
   bne again 
success
 
But I guess this is all useless, as you are using built-in routines, which I don't know how they work... but should work... There must be some kind of initialization missing...

User avatar
Symoon
Archivist
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:44 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Symoon » Mon Jun 23, 2014 7:04 pm

Thanks to all for the replies.
Chema wrote:I am a bit confused...
You say that nibble does not have this problem, but in your tests it does include the spurious bytes?
Hehe, it didn't seem to happen ;) Because at 1st I didn't notice it visually, except very few mistakes here and there (and at 1st I thought the hardware / old disk was to blame)
By counting in memory I could realize the problem is also there with Nibble but in a significantly lower amount.

I'm not looking to read sectors, but whole tracks (which should help the tool reading any disk)
Chema wrote:Maybe if you could post the code, it would help. I am not used to complete track reading routines in Sedoric...
The code is quite simple, here's for Nibble, from the moment CTRL P is pressed:
- it evaluates the command
- displays "reading" message
- stops the blinking cursor
- then reads the track this way:

Code: Select all

98BE  AD 8B A3       LDA $A38B  reads / stores the selected drive   
98C1  8D 00 C0       STA $C000      
98C4  AD 8A A3       LDA $A38A  same for the track
98C7  8D 01 C0       STA $C001  
98CA  AD D2 AA       LDA $AAD2  sets the destination buffer (C002, used for sector, is unused here)    
98CD  AE D3 AA       LDX $AAD3      
98D0  8D 03 C0       STA $C003      
98D3  8E 04 C0       STX $C004      
98D6  A2 18          LDX #$18    set head on track command   
98D8  20 CD CF       JSR $CFCD  Sedoric routine
98DB  A2 E0          LDX #$E0    read track command
98DD  20 CD CF       JSR $CFCD   Same Sedoric routine
98E0  A9 18          LDA #$18       
98E2  A2 80          LDX #$80      not sure what the rest is used for (display?) 
98E4  8D 90 A3       STA $A390    but anyway the track must already have been read there  
98E7  8E 8F A3       STX $A38F      
98EA  A9 31          LDA #$31       
98EC  8D 91 A3       STA $A391      
98EF  AD 91 AA       LDA $AA91      
98F2  F0 01          BEQ $98F5      
98F4  60             RTS            
On my side Fabrice sent me almost the same code to read a track last year (it didn't have the command $18). I added the command $18 just before the command $E0 but it didn't change anything.
Maybe Nibble does something before indeed, but that seems quite strange.

I should try (next weekend ?) to let Nibble read a track, exit, immediately launch my program to see if it reads it better (hoping Nibble's reading won't crush my basic code).

christian
Officer Cadet
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by christian » Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:46 pm

This is very strange because you always get $C2 bytes.

$C2 is a SYNC byte (of course you can find some in the datas).

I think there is one $C2 somewhere on a sector, so Euphoric is right because there is 3 $C2 bytes at the beginning of each track.
On a real hardware you should find only 2 $C2 bytes or less (the first one start the sync process of the FDC and can't generally be transferred to the data register) + the one on the sector.

Maybe the FDC has some trouble reading the track and retry.

Did you try to read a track on the other side or elsewhere on the disk (at the beginning, some in the middle, and at the end)?

Off topic, I can't get Nibble working with oricutron, CTRL+P seems to be a never ending loop, don't know why...

User avatar
Symoon
Archivist
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:44 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Symoon » Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:45 pm

What's even more puzzling is that somtimes the C2 bytes crush other bytes, and sometimes they are inserted between two bytes (I could see that by saving the reading buffer and comparing several readings of the same track)
christian wrote:Did you try to read a track on the other side or elsewhere on the disk (at the beginning, some in the middle, and at the end)?
I mostly tried on track 8 or 9 (repeating the same read) but I tried it on different drives and different disks (and even on 3" and 3.5").

Interesting: I had saved two readings on NightBird's equipment, and it seems there are much less of those C2 bytes, less than 10 that differ from one reading to the other. Same on older readings on my own hardware.
That doesn't explain anything though!
christian wrote:Off topic, I can't get Nibble working with oricutron, CTRL+P seems to be a never ending loop, don't know why...
Are you using Nibble 2.4? It was a fix made by Fabrice, I think Nibble had trouble with double-sided disks or something like that.

christian
Officer Cadet
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by christian » Mon Jun 23, 2014 11:44 pm

Symoon wrote:What's even more puzzling is that somtimes the C2 bytes crush other bytes, and sometimes they are inserted between two bytes (I could see that by saving the reading buffer and comparing several readings of the same track)
Does it means you don't have the same number of bytes read every time?

Maybe some kind of interference (power supply)?

Can you try with a HxC, I know it isn't the intent, but I think this can help the troubleshooting:
  • if there are no errors, the issue is probably the floppy drive (bad speed, dirty heads,...)
  • if you still have errors, maybe the controller interface or some interrupts
In fact, I'm not sure the Read Track command is really reliable.
Symoon wrote:Are you using Nibble 2.4? It was a fix made by Fabrice, I think Nibble had trouble with double-sided disks or something like that.
You're right, it was the 2.3

christian
Officer Cadet
Posts: 50
Joined: Sun Nov 24, 2013 9:58 pm

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by christian » Tue Jun 24, 2014 1:03 am

I watched the code at $CFCD, it disable only T1 interrupts but this should be sufficient:

Code: Select all

CFD4- LDA #$40
CFD6- STA #$30E
Reading is done by polling the DRQ register ($318) then reading the Data Register ($313) and so on until the FDC issues an IRQ indicating the end of the command or an error (subroutine at $D081)

That is exactly the opposite of what FTDOS does :)
It would be interesting to adapt your program to the Jasmin controller and see if there is the same problem.

User avatar
Symoon
Archivist
Posts: 1106
Joined: Sat Jan 14, 2006 12:44 am
Location: Paris, France
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Symoon » Tue Jun 24, 2014 6:36 am

christian wrote:It would be interesting to adapt your program to the Jasmin controller and see if there is the same problem.
Are there any technical docs for FT-DOS, just like l'Oric à Nu for Sedoric?
I've never been an ASM expert and it always takes me ages to understand rough code.

I can either try the track reading on Jasmin, or I could try to reproduce FT-Dos' reading strategy in Sedoric. In both cases I need more information about FT-Dos ;)
I have the manual stored somewhere (away from where I am) but never read it, does it goes that deep and detail the track reading?

User avatar
Xeron
Emulation expert
Posts: 382
Joined: Sat Mar 07, 2009 5:18 pm
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Xeron » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:44 am

In case you're wondering why it never worked in Oricutron, its because I never implemented track read/write. I didn't have anything to test it with, and would just have been guessing, so I'll probably bookmark this thread for useful info :-)

Godzil
Squad Leader
Posts: 755
Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 7:21 pm
Location: Between UK and France
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Godzil » Tue Jun 24, 2014 9:23 am

I don't think the Jasmin manual will help..

Christian asked a good question, is, how "reliable" is multiple run of the same code?
Also, if the floppy have some defect, it is possible that the hardware try to resync (the $c2)
Do you have a floppy with a well known content (for example a floppy that you write on your PC and you exactly know it's content)
A test floppy with easy to spot value (like buffers or $A5 / $5A, and some nice value like this) could be a good test media.

There is one thing I'm not sure to understand, some bytes are sometimes replaced by $C2, sometimes between valid bytes, there is some $C2 added?

It really sound like the controller have difficulty to read your floppy.

Could you measure the time needed to read the track? It may help to understand if there is some read errors.

Edit: I think this is the answer:

Image
Image

Image
Image

The FDC Read Track is not 100% reliable, I suspect that nibble will read the same track multiple times, and do some check before "validate" it.

(both extract come from FDC 179x datasheet: http://www.lupinek.com/soubory/wd2797.pdf or http://dev-docs.atariforge.org/files/WD1772.pdf )

User avatar
Chema
Game master
Posts: 1973
Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 10:55 am
Location: Gijón, SPAIN
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Chema » Tue Jun 24, 2014 7:57 pm

I think you got it Godzil. And that explains why this routine is seldom used in real programs.

Symoon, what are you trying to do? I could try to provide some routines to read full tracks sector by sector if you wish...

User avatar
Dbug
Site Admin
Posts: 2325
Joined: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:00 pm
Location: Oslo, Norway
Contact:

Re: Track reading (Sedoric / FDC)

Post by Dbug » Tue Jun 24, 2014 8:21 pm

He probably want to write a program that can do a raw copy of the floppy, independently of the number of sectors, tracks, special gaps, protections, etc...
Like what we had on the ST with the various copy programs.

Post Reply

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests